Maintaining fertility whilst on testosterone

[uzmah5]

I’m considering starting testosterone, my biggest concern is the slim chance of becoming permanently infertile. If I start testosterone I plan on using it for multiple years without coming off.

My biggest priority is being able to have kids in the future which is many years from now. What would be the best way to ensure fertility in the future?

From what I’ve read online some people run hcg year round to prevent the testicles from ever fully shutting down, is this the best way to go about using test if you’re biggest concern is having children?
(Pairing with a ai if estrogen is to high)

I don’t intend on doing any crazy cycles, however nothing is set in stone. As of right now though I’m intending on using 300-400mg test with anavar or sarms.

I’m 20 years old.

 

[Dreamer]

I’m considering starting testosterone, my biggest concern is the slim chance of becoming permanently infertile. If I start testosterone I plan on using it for multiple years without coming off.

My biggest priority is being able to have kids in the future which is many years from now. What would be the best way to ensure fertility in the future?

From what I’ve read online some people run hcg year round to prevent the testicles from ever fully shutting down, is this the best way to go about using test if you’re biggest concern is having children?
(Pairing with a ai if estrogen is to high)

I don’t intend on doing any crazy cycles, however nothing is set in stone. I was intending on using 300-400mg test with anavar or sarms.

I’m 20 years old.

If it is a priority to you, I would strongly recommened you dont, there is always ways to keep fertility, or restore it, but nothing is guaranteed and you could find yourself unable to have a family.

HCG also adds alot of complexity to managing e2.

Not the advice you want but the advice you need - your 20, dont.

 

[uzmah5]

If it is a priority to you, I would strongly recommened you dont, there is always ways to keep fertility, or restore it, but nothing is guaranteed and you could find yourself unable to have a family.

HCG also adds alot of complexity to managing e2.

Not the advice you want but the advice you need - your 20, dont.

I appreciate the advice, I definitely do want to hear more answers from others as well before I make my decision as I didn’t start to consider using test on a whim.

If I do end up using it I will get my sperm analyzed to make sure I’m healthy as a natural and possibly bank some sperm.

 

[toddthelineman]

I appreciate the advice, I definitely do want to hear more answers from others as well before I make my decision as I didn’t start to consider using test on a whim.

If I do end up using it I will get my sperm analyzed to make sure I’m healthy as a natural and possibly bank some sperm.

@Dreamer is correct. I ran hcg with trt for four years. E2 was an issue the whole time and you’ll never be able to keep it consistent even if you think you e found the right test/hcg/ai dosing, it changes because hcg is a bit fragile and you never get consistent effects. But it will keep your nits very near full size. But there’s a bigger problem with it. Hcg, even by itself, still shuts down production of sex hormones from your brain. So although your balls will still be active, your LH and fsh will still be zero and if you want to come off everything you will still need time to recover and you won’t make a 100% recovery because your hpta will still have been shut down at the source for years.

We have a handful of fertility logs that show this happening in real time. If you want to run trt and guarantee your chances for fatherhood you need to get a fertility test, and you need to freeze some samples. Which wouldn’t be a bad idea anyway because you never know, a lot of people who don’t even use any steroids have trouble conceiving these days.

Not trying to scare you, and you can search the internet and find plenty of info that will tell you what you want to hear but this IS the truth. If you search the word “fertility” on this forum you’ll find logs all about it and some of the loggers will be willing to talk to you about their experiences if you’re serious.

Also, have you done your bloodwork yet? Do you know you need trt or just suspect? My buddy got a fertility test and all the bloodwork this past year. He’s 49, never used stoerids, but he thought he must be feeling low t. He was in the middle 800s! Quite robust

 

[uzmah5]

@Dreamer is correct. I ran hcg with trt for four years. E2 was an issue the whole time and you’ll never be able to keep it consistent even if you think you e found the right test/hcg/ai dosing, it changes because hcg is a bit fragile and you never get consistent effects. But it will keep your nits very near full size. But there’s a bigger problem with it. Hcg, even by itself, still shuts down production of sex hormones from your brain. So although your balls will still be active, your LH and fsh will still be zero and if you want to come off everything you will still need time to recover and you won’t make a 100% recovery because your hpta will still have been shut down at the source for years.

We have a handful of fertility logs that show this happening in real time. If you want to run trt and guarantee your chances for fatherhood you need to get a fertility test, and you need to freeze some samples. Which wouldn’t be a bad idea anyway because you never know, a lot of people who don’t even use any steroids have trouble conceiving these days.

Not trying to scare you, and you can search the internet and find plenty of info that will tell you what you want to hear but this IS the truth. If you search the word “fertility” on this forum you’ll find logs all about it and some of the loggers will be willing to talk to you about their experiences if you’re serious.

Also, have you done your bloodwork yet? Do you know you need trt or just suspect? My buddy got a fertility test and all the bloodwork this past year. He’s 49, never used stoerids, but he thought he must be feeling low t. He was in the middle 800s! Quite robust

I see, what about hmg instead of hcg. I’m aware it’s expensive and ignoring the increased e2 for a moment would it prevent hpta shutdown?

Since you weren’t able to get estrogen dialed in how were you feeling whilst running hcg and were you able to get your nuts working again easily?

Also I’m not opposed to staying on testosterone for life, my main thing is being able to have kids when I want to. I also have no issues with paying extra and taking precautions early on to ensure I can have kids.

I’ll definitely read through some logs to get a better idea of others personal experiences. The fertility issues for natural is a little more complex though, basically everything now is bad for our natural test the soap we use the plastics and chemicals on the food plus most people have terrible diets only focused around calories or no sort of control.

I haven’t done bloodwork, I’m in the early stages of considering testosterone and I’m not doing it for trt purposes I’m doing it for muscle as any ped worth taking requires a test base. I believe my natural testosterone is already very high although I no way to prove it besides through indicators of high test.

 

[Dreamer]

I see, what about hmg instead of hcg. I’m aware it’s expensive and ignoring the increased e2 for a moment would it prevent hpta shutdown?

Since you weren’t able to get estrogen dialed in how were you feeling whilst running hcg and were you able to get your nuts working again easily?

Also I’m not opposed to staying on testosterone for life, my main thing is being able to have kids when I want to. I also have no issues with paying extra and taking precautions early on to ensure I can have kids.

I’ll definitely read through some logs to get a better idea of others personal experiences. The fertility issues for natural is a little more complex though, basically everything now is bad for our natural test the soap we use the plastics and chemicals on the food plus most people have terrible diets only focused around calories or no sort of control.

I haven’t done bloodwork, I’m in the early stages of considering testosterone and I’m not doing it for trt purposes I’m doing it for muscle as any ped worth taking requires a test base. I believe my natural testosterone is already very high although I no way to prove it besides through indicators of high test.

No it wouldnt, it would probably keep sperm being created but you would still be shut down, but you dont want to run that for that long as you can desensitise to it.

Unfortunately mate, its the trade off, if you wanna run gear you need to be okay with the fact that you MAY never be able to naturally conceive, there is no real effective way around it - PCT exists but has its own issues.

Not trying to gatekeep it or tell you you should or shouldnt, but the harsh truth is exactly that, you may be one of these guys who retains fertility - or like myself restored it coming off, but jumping on at 20 you need to be okay with the fact that you very well may not .

 

[uzmah5]

No it wouldnt, it would probably keep sperm being created but you would still be shut down, but you dont want to run that for that long as you can desensitise to it.

Unfortunately mate, its the trade off, if you wanna run gear you need to be okay with the fact that you MAY never be able to naturally conceive, there is no real effective way around it - PCT exists but has its own issues.

Alright I see, I’m aware there is no guarantee. I would just like to weigh out the odds and learn more because whatever the statistic may be of people becoming infertile it usually doesn’t include context.

For example were they abusing crazy dosages and risky compounds or were they not even producing testosterone properly as a natural.

Obviously there is no percentage anyone can guarantee me of maintaining fertility however I would like more info so I can make a informed decision and go about it the safest way possible

 

[Dreamer]

Alright I see, I’m aware there is no guarantee. I would just like to weigh out the odds and learn more because whatever the statistic may be of people becoming infertile it usually doesn’t include context.

For example were they abusing crazy dosages and risky compounds or were they not even producing testosterone properly as a natural.

Obviously there is no percentage anyone can guarantee me of maintaining fertility however I would like more info so I can make a informed decision and go about it the safest way possible

Well I will give you my anecdotal account.

I ran TRT for a couple of years - literal TRT, no blasts or silly doses 125mg a week test e, this was enough to shut me down to 0.

I then ran a cycle of 400 Test, 600 Primo, 300 NPP - right towards the end my wife decided she wanted to have a baby.

I tried to bring my sperm numbers up while staying on TRT and pumping HCG, HGH and HMG - e2 was a nightmare, in the end I ditched the TRT for enclompihene, which after about 3 months I had restored my fertility and got my wife pregnant - so it can be done, and there is more cases of this, @CypherOCE has recently had a sperm test come back positive after running a similar protocol.

There is storys of dudes getting their girls pregnant while on full cycles, I guess its hard to answer your question because there is no straight answer, there is no real statistic, what worked for me may not for you, you may already be infertile?

The real question you have to ask yourself is, not what are the odds but will you be okay with the fact that you may not be able to if you choose to go down this path, freezing sperm is intelligent if you do choose to.

 

[uzmah5]

Well I will give you my anecdotal account.

I ran TRT for a couple of years - literal TRT, no blasts or silly doses 125mg a week test e, this was enough to shut me down to 0.

I then ran a cycle of 400 Test, 600 Primo, 300 NPP - right towards the end my wife decided she wanted to have a baby.

I tried to bring my sperm numbers up while staying on TRT and pumping HCG, HGH and HMG - e2 was a nightmare, in the end I ditched the TRT for enclompihene, which after about 3 months I had restored my fertility and got my wife pregnant - so it can be done, and there is more cases of this, @CypherOCE has recently had a sperm test come back positive after running a similar protocol.

There is storys of dudes getting their girls pregnant while on full cycles, I guess its hard to answer your question because there is no straight answer, there is no real statistic, what worked for me may not for you, you may already be infertile?

The real question you have to ask yourself is, not what are the odds but will you be okay with the fact that you may not be able to if you choose to go down this path, freezing sperm is intelligent if you do choose to.

I appreciate the detailed log, this seems to be the general theme that I’ve noticed almost everyone seems to recover with pct around the 3-4 month mark.

The main question was more so is there any procedures/insurance that I can do from day 1 to help make recovery or maintain function of my balls while on test. Which is why I mentioned running hcg year round. So if you have any tips you’ve learnt from your experience with using test they would be greatly appreciated.

Before I do begin any sort of cycle I’ll be doing tests to make sure I’m healthy and fertile. Realistically I’ll think I’ll be fine considering I’m young and I highly doubt I have any issues with my fertility and testosterone

 

[Dreamer]

I appreciate the detailed log, this seems to be the general theme that I’ve noticed almost everyone seems to recover with pct around the 3-4 month mark.

The main question was more so is there any procedures/insurance that I can do from day 1 to help make recovery or maintain function of my balls while on test. Which is why I mentioned running hcg year round. So if you have any tips you’ve learnt from your experience with using test they would be greatly appreciated.

Before I do begin any sort of cycle I’ll be doing tests to make sure I’m healthy and fertile. Realistically I’ll think I’ll be fine considering I’m young and I highly doubt I have any issues with my fertility and testosterone

The creation of sperm takes around 90 days which is why you will see that time frame over and over.

There is alot of things you can take to give yourself the best chance -

Astaxanthin
Vitamin E, C and D
Injectable L Cartinine
Coq10
High dose Omega 3
Selenium
Zinc - almost all of these will help on cycle in general

HMG/HCG/Enclomiphene of course - but e2 can be a real issue.

Kisspeptin the peptide has good reports.

The thing is though, no one knows, no one can guarantee, but more than likely your correct if you cycled off and ran a protocol like that yeah give it a few months youd probably recover - I think the point I am trying to drive home is, you have to be content in your mind with your decision that it may cost you fertility.

 

[toddthelineman]

I see, what about hmg instead of hcg. I’m aware it’s expensive and ignoring the increased e2 for a moment would it prevent hpta shutdown?

Since you weren’t able to get estrogen dialed in how were you feeling whilst running hcg and were you able to get your nuts working again easily?

Also I’m not opposed to staying on testosterone for life, my main thing is being able to have kids when I want to. I also have no issues with paying extra and taking precautions early on to ensure I can have kids.

I’ll definitely read through some logs to get a better idea of others personal experiences. The fertility issues for natural is a little more complex though, basically everything now is bad for our natural test the soap we use the plastics and chemicals on the food plus most people have terrible diets only focused around calories or no sort of control.

I haven’t done bloodwork, I’m in the early stages of considering testosterone and I’m not doing it for trt purposes I’m doing it for muscle as any ped worth taking requires a test base. I believe my natural testosterone is already very high although I no way to prove it besides through indicators of high test.

Oooooooooo I missed the part that you are 20 years old.

Listen. It’s true that the cards are stacked against you, but bro, please please please listen. You have no idea what your body is capable of. No matter the obstacles that you currently face, you should spend the next few years wringing out every possible bit of natural potential you have. Taking exogenous hormones now will fuck you over. They’ll work, sure, but you’ll be screwed without them and you’re very high risk for permanent shut down. A chick I’m dating, her sister left a guy I know because he failed to give her children after years of trying. He looks amazing and he’s a nice guy. If he there a log on here he’d be one of the best. But he’s been on gear since he was 19 and he’s pretty fucked. Wait.

 

[uzmah5]

The creation of sperm takes around 90 days which is why you will see that time frame over and over.

There is alot of things you can take to give yourself the best chance -

Astaxanthin
Vitamin E, C and D
Injectable L Cartinine
Coq10
High dose Omega 3
Selenium
Zinc - almost all of these will help on cycle in general

HMG/HCG/Enclomiphene of course - but e2 can be a real issue.

Kisspeptin the peptide has good reports.

The thing is though, no one knows, no one can guarantee, but more than likely your correct if you cycled off and ran a protocol like that yeah give it a few months youd probably recover - I think the point I am trying to drive home is, you have to be content in your mind with your decision that it may cost you fertility.

That’s makes sense, I’m already taking most of the supplements you listed and a few more.

You mentioned hcg/hmg/enclomiphene are these year round or only when fertility/pct is needed also I’ve never heard of enclomiphene because being run whilst on test, could that be a viable option?

Yes unfortunately there is no guarantee, it’s definitely not something I’d start tomorrow on an impulse. I will continue to research myself and understand things better and come to decision. All the info you’ve given so far is helping so I appreciate all the help and knowledge.

 

[toddthelineman]

That’s makes sense, I’m already taking most of the supplements you listed and a few more.

You mentioned hcg/hmg/enclomiphene are these year round or only when fertility/pct is needed also I’ve never heard of enclomiphene because being run whilst on test, could that be a viable option?

Yes unfortunately there is no guarantee, it’s definitely not something I’d start tomorrow on an impulse. I will continue to research myself and understand things better and come to decision. All the info you’ve given so far is helping so I appreciate all the help and knowledge.

Start a log! Let’s get you 100% dialed natty first

 

[uzmah5]

Oooooooooo I missed the part that you are 20 years old.

Listen. It’s true that the cards are stacked against you, but bro, please please please listen. You have no idea what your body is capable of. No matter the obstacles that you currently face, you should spend the next few years wringing out every possible bit of natural potential you have. Taking exogenous hormones now will fuck you over. They’ll work, sure, but you’ll be screwed without them and you’re very high risk for permanent shut down. A chick I’m dating, her sister left a guy I know because he failed to give her children after years of trying. He looks amazing and he’s a nice guy. If he there a log on here he’d be one of the best. But he’s been on gear since he was 19 and he’s pretty fucked. Wait.

Realistically there is no way I’m staying natural, whether it’s now or in a year or 2. My last hope of not hopping on test is ac262 as it’s very mild when it comes to suppression and Enclomiphene is more than enough recover. I’ve been training for many years now, I’ve already started gh peptides and there’s no way I’m going back especially considering taking these compounds at a young age can completely transform your frame.

Also correct me if I’m wrong doesn’t being younger and coming off actually increase my chances of recovering instead of me being older and coming off?

 

[uzmah5]

Start a log! Let’s get you 100% dialed natty first

I hope this doesn’t come off as arrogant or stubborn, however I’m done with being natural whether it’s sarms or test or whatever. I need efficiency and I understand anything that works well will always have some sort of risk however I can no longer be stagnant or progressing at the natural rate.

 

[Dreamer]

Realistically there is no way I’m staying natural, whether it’s now or in a year or 2. My last hope of not hopping on test is ac262 as it’s very mild when it comes to suppression and Enclomiphene is more than enough recover. I’ve been training for many years now, I’ve already started gh peptides and there’s no way I’m going back especially considering taking these compounds at a young age can completely transform your frame.

Also correct me if I’m wrong because doesn’t being younger and coming off actually increase my chances of recovering instead of me being older and coming off?

Yes, but the longer your on the harder to restore, so if you decide at 30 to have a child your 10 years of shutdown, and theres only so many times you can PCT really, its not very healthy for your body to take those meds.

 

[toddthelineman]

Realistically there is no way I’m staying natural, whether it’s now or in a year or 2. My last hope of not hopping on test is ac262 as it’s very mild when it comes to suppression and Enclomiphene is more than enough recover. I’ve been training for many years now, I’ve already started gh peptides and there’s no way I’m going back especially considering taking these compounds at a young age can completely transform your frame.

Also correct me if I’m wrong because doesn’t being younger and coming off actually increase my chances of recovering instead of me being older and coming off?

I understand everything you’re saying. I’m stepping away now because I don’t want any part of it. You’ll be ok. You’re making a mistake and sometimes you just have to learn the hard way. Do what you want. Take care of your health. Understand that the decisions you make now will affect you for the rest of your life, which is both longer and shorter than you can conceive of now

 

[Dozer55]

I’m considering starting testosterone, my biggest concern is the slim chance of becoming permanently infertile. If I start testosterone I plan on using it for multiple years without coming off.

My biggest priority is being able to have kids in the future which is many years from now. What would be the best way to ensure fertility in the future?

From what I’ve read online some people run hcg year round to prevent the testicles from ever fully shutting down, is this the best way to go about using test if you’re biggest concern is having children?
(Pairing with a ai if estrogen is to high)

I don’t intend on doing any crazy cycles, however nothing is set in stone. As of right now though I’m intending on using 300-400mg test with anavar or sarms.

I’m 20 years old.

Hey dude! One 20yrs old is way to young to think about going on trt. If you’re convinced and you’re test is somehow that low at youre age I’d start at 180mg a week do that for 2-3 months and go get blood work if you’re estrogen is in a healthy range and you’re test is 800-1300 you’re good to go. If you’re still at 600 bump it up to 200mg a week. Wait another 3-4 months and check it again.

Now for you’re 300-400mg’s I sure hope that’s a cycle you’re planning on running…. If you think that’s a trt dose you’re dumb. The highest would be 250mv a week but if it’s for a cycle, run 400mg for 12-14weeks. On week 15 drop right down to youre 180-200mg dose and cruise with that for about 4 months get blood work, if everything is good and healthy you can run another cycle.

For you’re shot schedule it a play around kind of thing some guys are fine with one shot a week some are 2 or every other day. I found micro doseing youre trt dose is way better even if you’re using test e or c get a 31g 5/16 insulin syringe and pin every day. 100units=1ml so it’s pretty easy to figure out what you need to draw too.

For fertility. I would t sweat too hard brother you’re very young to walk this path but I’m 32 right now I met my wife when I was 29 that’s when I also did my first cycle and eventually just went the trt route I looked at it as why would I come completely off and send my hormones through a roller coaster and pct just made me tired and shitty.
We got married and the. We said okay fuck it let’s try having kids after 5 months of endless loads nothing. I made an appointment to see a urologist but was 2 months out so that’s fine. So I started reading what I could do to help me sooner. I started taking zinc from 10x health 2 months later she was pregnant.

For you’re hcg year round? Ehhh I wouldn’t really be concerned for that cause if you take too much of that you have a potential to raise you’re estrogen. I personally didn’t take it now if I didn’t get my wife pregnant they were going to give me zinc, hcg and hmg to start the dosing I never asked about to I’d research that but only do it if you really found that special someone you intend of marrying And starting a family with. If you’re concerned about your balls shrinking. Look at it this way. Women don’t give a damn about the size of you’re nuts just how big you’re cock is that’s the prize lol.

Sarms and shit ehh if you’re using steroids fuck sarms but that’s my opinion. Anavar is a good choice tho! Love it if you’re not looking to cut tho I’d save it for summer. But if you’re dead set on using it 50mg a day is a nice dose it has a 8hr half life so if you’re dead set can split you’re dosage up to 2-3 times a day that’d be ideal if not ehh ots fine it’s not gunna make or break how it works.

Hope this helps.

 

[uzmah5]

Yes, but the longer your on the harder to restore, so if you decide at 30 to have a child your 10 years of shutdown, and theres only so many times you can PCT really, its not very healthy for your body to take those meds.

I see, so hypothetically if I was to do test it would be best to use it for a shorter period until I’m satisfied with the results hopefully 2-3 years. Come off do pct and continue on with enclomiphene.

 

[uzmah5]

Hey dude! One 20yrs old is way to young to think about going on trt. If you’re convinced and you’re test is somehow that low at youre age I’d start at 180mg a week do that for 2-3 months and go get blood work if you’re estrogen is in a healthy range and you’re test is 800-1300 you’re good to go. If you’re still at 600 bump it up to 200mg a week. Wait another 3-4 months and check it again.

Now for you’re 300-400mg’s I sure hope that’s a cycle you’re planning on running…. If you think that’s a trt dose you’re dumb. The highest would be 250mv a week but if it’s for a cycle, run 400mg for 12-14weeks. On week 15 drop right down to youre 180-200mg dose and cruise with that for about 4 months get blood work, if everything is good and healthy you can run another cycle.

For you’re shot schedule it a play around kind of thing some guys are fine with one shot a week some are 2 or every other day. I found micro doseing youre trt dose is way better even if you’re using test e or c get a 31g 5/16 insulin syringe and pin every day. 100units=1ml so it’s pretty easy to figure out what you need to draw too.

For fertility. I would t sweat too hard brother you’re very young to walk this path but I’m 32 right now I met my wife when I was 29 that’s when I also did my first cycle and eventually just went the trt route I looked at it as why would I come completely off and send my hormones through a roller coaster and pct just made me tired and shitty.
We got married and the. We said okay fuck it let’s try having kids after 5 months of endless loads nothing. I made an appointment to see a urologist but was 2 months out so that’s fine. So I started reading what I could do to help me sooner. I started taking zinc from 10x health 2 months later she was pregnant.

For you’re hcg year round? Ehhh I wouldn’t really be concerned for that cause if you take too much of that you have a potential to raise you’re estrogen. I personally didn’t take it now if I didn’t get my wife pregnant they were going to give me zinc, hcg and hmg to start the dosing I never asked about to I’d research that but only do it if you really found that special someone you intend of marrying And starting a family with. If you’re concerned about your balls shrinking. Look at it this way. Women don’t give a damn about the size of you’re nuts just how big you’re cock is that’s the prize lol.

Sarms and shit ehh if you’re using steroids fuck sarms but that’s my opinion. Anavar is a good choice tho! Love it if you’re not looking to cut tho I’d save it for summer. But if you’re dead set on using it 50mg a day is a nice dose it has a 8hr half life so if you’re dead set can split you’re dosage up to 2-3 times a day that’d be ideal if not ehh ots fine it’s not gunna make or break how it works.

Hope this helps.

I don’t believe my test is low, I’m doing it for muscle gain. I did intend on starting out on a lower dose like 150mg, I only stated 300-400mg as that’s the upper limit that I’d take it to. I’m aware it’s not a trt dose, I’m not doing it for trt purposes.

I was planning on splitting it up into multiples doses to keep a more stable level.

I’m glad it worked out for you and you were able to get your wife pregnant. Realistically I don’t think fertility will be a issue as long as I don’t do any stupid cycles or constantly cycle off and pct as I heard doing it for no point over and over again does more harm than good.

I was viewing hcg as sort of like insurance, as in if it slightly increases the odds of me being fertile again it’s something I’d invest in. I know almost all people recover from test use however there is still the small percentage that don’t, what I’m trying to learn from this post is methods to reduce the odds of me ending up in that very small percentage of men that couldn’t recover.

Honestly the only reason I didn’t want to run any extreme steroids was because I don’t mind sacrificing some gains if it’s safer long term for my fertility. Obviously I care a lot about my fertility however I also have short term goals like muscle gain, I’m just trying to find the middle ground where I can have both and maximise both aspects before I’m no longer okay with the amount of risk.

I appreciate the detailed response and cycle advice

 

[willipede]

Freeze some sperm

 

[CypherOCE]

Realistically there is no way I’m staying natural, whether it’s now or in a year or 2. My last hope of not hopping on test is ac262 as it’s very mild when it comes to suppression and Enclomiphene is more than enough recover. I’ve been training for many years now, I’ve already started gh peptides and there’s no way I’m going back especially considering taking these compounds at a young age can completely transform your frame.

Also correct me if I’m wrong doesn’t being younger and coming off actually increase my chances of recovering instead of me being older and coming off?

Doesn’t really matter you start AAS and you run the risk of the testes never starting back up again

You either roll the dice or you don’t - there’s no sitting in the fence or magic PCT drug that will keep you fertile forever

 

[Mobster]

I appreciate the advice, I definitely do want to hear more answers from others as well before I make my decision as I didn’t start to consider using test on a whim.

If I do end up using it I will get my sperm analyzed to make sure I’m healthy as a natural and possibly bank some sperm.

Even this, via IVF, is majorly stressful for both partners

 

[Nasser1997o2]

My man you are fishing for an answer you won’t get.

At the end of the day the fact is “there is no guarantee”

You can do all the things to maintain your fertility and it might not work.

You might be ok, you might not. You’ll just need to live with the consequences.

Sperm also dies pretty often when it’s frozen.

Like everyone else has said, you’re 20, your brain isn’t even fully developed yet.

 

[Mobster]

My man you are fishing for an answer you won’t get.

At the end of the day the fact is “there is no guarantee”

You can do all the things to maintain your fertility and it might not work.

You might be ok, you might not. You’ll just need to live with the consequences.

Sperm also dies pretty often when it’s frozen.

Like everyone else has said, you’re 20, your brain isn’t even fully developed yet.

On one hand thinking ahead IS good. But, as Nasser says, NO ONE can give you a 100% effective reply. You ARE risking future fertility and more so looking at using PEDs at age 20 when you haven't fully matured.


You KNOW the truth - you're rolling the dice. Some win, some do not.

 

[Dozer55]

I don’t believe my test is low, I’m doing it for muscle gain. I did intend on starting out on a lower dose like 150mg, I only stated 300-400mg as that’s the upper limit that I’d take it to. I’m aware it’s not a trt dose, I’m not doing it for trt purposes.

I was planning on splitting it up into multiples doses to keep a more stable level.

I’m glad it worked out for you and you were able to get your wife pregnant. Realistically I don’t think fertility will be a issue as long as I don’t do any stupid cycles or constantly cycle off and pct as I heard doing it for no point over and over again does more harm than good.

I was viewing hcg as sort of like insurance, as in if it slightly increases the odds of me being fertile again it’s something I’d invest in. I know almost all people recover from test use however there is still the small percentage that don’t, what I’m trying to learn from this post is methods to reduce the odds of me ending up in that very small percentage of men that couldn’t recover.

Honestly the only reason I didn’t want to run any extreme steroids was because I don’t mind sacrificing some gains if it’s safer long term for my fertility. Obviously I care a lot about my fertility however I also have short term goals like muscle gain, I’m just trying to find the middle ground where I can have both and maximise both aspects before I’m no longer okay with the amount of risk.

I appreciate the detailed response and cycle advice

I mean being 20 I would dial in youre training and eat more food. Try reaching you’re genetic potential first.

If you’re that scared go to a urologist, get tested if you heave healthy sperm you can always freeze it before you take anything.

But I’d train and eat hard for at least 5-7 years then start youre journey. You can sprinkle some Anavar in there along the way

 

[uzmah5]

Doesn’t really matter you start AAS and you run the risk of the testes never starting back up again

You either roll the dice or you don’t - there’s no sitting in the fence or magic PCT drug that will keep you fertile forever

I’m aware there is no guarantee, the point of this post is to decrease the odds I know it ca never be 0. I’m aware even without any sort of early prevention as long the cycles used aren’t retarded almost every recovers.

The main point of this post was to see what I can do from day 1 to increase the odds in my favour.

 

[uzmah5]

My man you are fishing for an answer you won’t get.

At the end of the day the fact is “there is no guarantee”

You can do all the things to maintain your fertility and it might not work.

You might be ok, you might not. You’ll just need to live with the consequences.

Sperm also dies pretty often when it’s frozen.

Like everyone else has said, you’re 20, your brain isn’t even fully developed yet.

I understand there is no guarantee, which is also why I’m not on test already. I was hoping to find some sort of protocol that can help increase the odds of me recovering, I know even without this said protocol I’m looking for almost everyone recovers it’s only a minority that don’t however just like with anything it’s usually a loud minority.

 

[uzmah5]

On one hand thinking ahead IS good. But, as Nasser says, NO ONE can give you a 100% effective reply. You ARE risking future fertility and more so looking at using PEDs at age 20 when you haven't fully matured.


You KNOW the truth - you're rolling the dice. Some win, some do not.

I understand, I’m definitely not after a 100% I also wouldn’t put 100% trust in some dudes I’m speaking to on a forum even if they did give me a guarantee.

I was hoping to hear some anecdotal and possibly about some actual studies stating that using hcg year round can help increase, and from what I’ve found/heard it seems to help increase the odds in my favour.

Currently I’m thinking about cruising for 2-4 years to prevent me from having to do multiple pcts, after the 2-4 years coming off and staying on enclomiphene until I’m done having kids and hop on test for life. I also intend on running hcg year round of course monitoring estrogen closely.

 

[uzmah5]

I mean being 20 I would dial in youre training and eat more food. Try reaching you’re genetic potential first.

If you’re that scared go to a urologist, get tested if you heave healthy sperm you can always freeze it before you take anything.

But I’d train and eat hard for at least 5-7 years then start youre journey. You can sprinkle some Anavar in there along the way

I’ve been training for 4.5 years now, realistically no one is going to change my mind on peds whether I stick to peptides and mild sarms or end up using test either way I won’t be natural.

The only reason I’m considering test is because all worthwhile compounds are suppressive, before test though I’ll be trying ac262 with enclomiphene as ac262 is basically almost no suppression and enclomiphene is more than enough to recover.

I would have loved to run anavar however it seems to be very suppressive and from what I’ve seen you need a test base.

If I do end up using test, the max I’d push the test to is 400mg and I’d add anavar, hgh and some other peptides maybe a Sarm as well.

 

[Mobster]

I understand, I’m definitely not after a 100% I also wouldn’t put 100% trust in some dudes I’m speaking to on a forum even if they did give me a guarantee.

I was hoping to hear some anecdotal and possibly about some actual studies stating that using hcg year round can help increase, and from what I’ve found/heard it seems to help increase the odds in my favour.

Currently I’m thinking about cruising for 2-4 years to prevent me from having to do multiple pcts, after the 2-4 years coming off and staying on enclomiphene until I’m done having kids and hop on test for life. I also intend on running hcg year round of course monitoring estrogen closely.

This, in my opinion is far more likely to cause issues with sterility. Indeed those that do the cruising idea are more likely than those who come off and do PCTs to have fertility issues.

Do you offer research showing proof is does not?

 

[uzmah5]

This, in my opinion is far more likely to cause issues with sterility. Indeed those that do the cruising idea are more likely than those who come off and do PCTs to have fertility issues.

Do you offer research showing proof is does not?

I don’t have any studies, I was hoping to get more insight on this as well from this post. This is just anecdotal stuff that I’ve seen by searching through forums.

I have noticed a lot of people saying that multiple pcts can do more harm than good, I’ve also seen people saying on for many years and having your hpta shutdown for very long is terrible as well.

Which is why I was considering running test for 2-4 years whilst staying on hcg year round. When I come off I’ll do my pct and spend the rest of days on enclomiphene, gh secretagogues and other peptides until I’m doing having kids, afterwards use test for life.

 

[Mobster]

I’ve been training for 4.5 years now, realistically no one is going to change my mind on peds whether I stick to peptides and mild sarms or end up using test either way I won’t be natural.

The only reason I’m considering test is because all worthwhile compounds are suppressive, before test though I’ll be trying ac262 with enclomiphene as ac262 is basically almost no suppression and enclomiphene is more than enough to recover.

I would have loved to run anavar however it seems to be very suppressive and from what I’ve seen you need a test base.

If I do end up using test, the max I’d push the test to is 400mg and I’d add anavar, hgh and some other peptides maybe a Sarm as well.

Let me give you an example of why this is a bad idea.

You're intelligent enough to come here and ask for suggestions and help right? Now let's imagine that you DO have kids. One gets to say, age 18-20, and wants to use. What would YOUR advice to them be?

You clearly state ''enclomiphene is more than enough to recover''. That's simply not true

Anavar is the (often debated) LEAST harsh oral PED. Ergo less of an issue (as opposed to none of course) than others.

The idea of a Test Base is been pretty much agreed as bro-science.

Points 2-4 makes me worry you're being selective in what your looking at. Like having blinkers on.

Others have made a point I've made elsewhere - that at age 20 what you think today is NOT how you'll think in 5 or even 10 years. What seems important now will NOT be so then. Hence our advice.

Now understand this. We cannot hold your hand. It's on YOU when it comes to these decisions. But even if you ignore that advice we also have some responsibility to other 20 year old members who searched and found your thread who MIGHT listen to our advice.

 

[Mobster]

I don’t have any studies, I was hoping to get more insight on this as well from this post. This is just anecdotal stuff that I’ve seen by searching through forums.

I have noticed a lot of people saying that multiple pcts can do more harm than good, I’ve also seen people saying on for many years and having your hpta shutdown for very long is terrible as well.

Which is why I was considering running test for 2-4 years whilst staying on hcg year round. When I come off I’ll do my pct and spend the rest of days on enclomiphene, gh secretagogues and other peptides until I’m doing having kids, afterwards use test for life.

Question what they mean by harm. I have an idea what it means but I'd like your view

HCG year round will NOT, imo, help and nor will enclomiphene. Both CAN help but, as before, neither are truly cast iron GTG 'fixes'. Most users of HCG when on do so to 'plump their balls'.

Let me ask you a root cause question (give many here use, inc me (TRT now and occasional cycles but I'm 61)) what is the aim or purpose of years of staying on? Meaning where are you now in your training etc journey and where do you expect to be on that journey by staying on for years?

 

[uzmah5]

Let me give you an example of why this is a bad idea.

You're intelligent enough to come here and ask for suggestions and help right? Now let's imagine that you DO have kids. One gets to say, age 18-20, and wants to use. What would YOUR advice to them be?

You clearly state ''enclomiphene is more than enough to recover''. That's simply not true

Anavar is the (often debated) LEAST harsh oral PED. Ergo less of an issue (as opposed to none of course) than others.

The idea of a Test Base is been pretty much agreed as bro-science.

Points 2-4 makes me worry you're being selective in what your looking at. Like having blinkers on.

Others have made a point I've made elsewhere - that at age 20 what you think today is NOT how you'll think in 5 or even 10 years. What seems important now will NOT be so then. Hence our advice.

Now understand this. We cannot hold your hand. It's on YOU when it comes to these decisions. But even if you ignore that advice we also have some responsibility to other 20 year old members who searched and found your thread who MIGHT listen to our advice.

Of course if I have any questions or concerns I’ll ask which is why I’m here in the first place.

I think you misunderstood me stating using enclomiphene for recovery, I was referring to using the sarm ac262 and enclomiphene before trying test.

I wasn’t aware that the idea of a test base is considered bro science, I’ve yet to hear that elsewhere as well. If you don’t mind elaborating that would be great, I should state if enclomiphene is enough for me to recover from using milder peds like anavar or mild sarms I’m fine with not using test.

Also about the age thing “you will change your mind in the future” I don’t think is a point worth stating, realistically everyone did and will continue to try things that may not be wise if you only value longevity. I understand your view is out of concern however it’s more complex than “just wait” if that was the case no one would try anything new. Expecting a younger person to think like a 60 year old is unrealistic and I’m sure that can be reflected in anyone’s life.

I’m aware I’m responsible and the only one to blame for anything bad is me, which is why I’m here to make a informed decision.

 

[uzmah5]

Question what they mean by harm. I have an idea what it means but I'd like your view

HCG year round will NOT, imo, help and nor will enclomiphene. Both CAN help but, as before, neither are truly cast iron GTG 'fixes'. Most users of HCG when on do so to 'plump their balls'.

Let me ask you a root cause question (give many here use, inc me (TRT now and occasional cycles but I'm 61)) what is the aim or purpose of years of staying on? Meaning where are you now in your training etc journey and where do you expect to be on that journey by staying on for years?

Apparently from what I’ve seen on posts your body can only handle so many pcts and it becomes less effective each time, I don’t know how true this is it’s just what I’ve seen.

For the hcg topic I’ve only really seen opposing opinions on the evo forum, apparently it reduces the chances of azoospermia, I wasn’t planning on running enclomiphene on test only when I come off test.

I want to use it because I want to change my frame and physique. I’m young so it’s possible to transform my frame, I’m not genetically blessed when it comes to these things. Realistically these things matter a lot for quality of life how others and you perceive yourself directly affects the outcome of anything you do I’ve seen this first hand in my life from being obese to getting in shape. Plus I’m also autistic as shit so I’m always doing something new although I’m getting off topic now.

I’ve been training for 4.5 years, I originally started due to being obese obviously that taught me lots of things about how important your image is. Now training is the foundation for everything I do it taught me discipline and everything that I do now. However I can’t continue to progress at a natural rate, also after learning about the small window I have to completely transform my frame it’s not something I can pass up.

 

[madcap71]

To throw a spanner in the works...

I'm 41 next week, I've been taking AAS for 19 years on and off including blast & cruise cycles (and competition prep) for the last 5 years, nothing massive cycle wise, the highest I've gone to for total androgenic load was just under 2g for the end of competition prep. I've only recently introduced HCG in the last 2 months.

I did a basic sperm test and the results came back "normal"

I did a more "advanced" test and my semen analysis came back good:

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...e-primo-retatrutide-cycle.105362/post-1923041

Not everyone is the same and getting your fertility back, can be a long, painful road.

I'd suggest if you decide to go on gear, do a semen analysis first to see where you are and to have a PCT or low dose TRT cruise period where you incorporate HCG and encomiphene to get fertility back to where it should be.

 

[uzmah5]

Question what they mean by harm. I have an idea what it means but I'd like your view

HCG year round will NOT, imo, help and nor will enclomiphene. Both CAN help but, as before, neither are truly cast iron GTG 'fixes'. Most users of HCG when on do so to 'plump their balls'.

Let me ask you a root cause question (give many here use, inc me (TRT now and occasional cycles but I'm 61)) what is the aim or purpose of years of staying on? Meaning where are you now in your training etc journey and where do you expect to be on that journey by staying on for years?

I looked into the multiple pct harm a little more, it’s repeated hpta stress you can become desensitised and apparently Sertoli cells care more about consistency.

Again this is just stuff I’ve seen, you can debunk or agree with this as I’m sure someone’s who used test and come off will have some insight.

 

[uzmah5]

To throw a spanner in the works...

I'm 41 next week, I've been taking AAS for 19 years on and off including blast & cruise cycles (and competition prep) for the last 5 years, nothing massive cycle wise, the highest I've gone to for total androgenic load was just under 2g for the end of competition prep. I've only recently introduced HCG in the last 2 months.

I did a basic sperm test and the results came back "normal"

I did a more "advanced" test and my semen analysis came back good:

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...e-primo-retatrutide-cycle.105362/post-1923041

Not everyone is the same and getting your fertility back, can be a long, painful road.

I'd suggest if you decide to go on gear, do a semen analysis first to see where you are and to have a PCT or low dose TRT cruise period where you incorporate HCG and encomiphene to get fertility back to where it should be.

Wow that’s long you started around 20, I definitely don’t intend on using for that long or nearly as extreme. I will for sure get a sperm analysis for an idea of the chances of me recovering.

Also you recommend me having a period where I pct and get fertility back. How often would you recommend doing this, for example after every 2 years?

I intend on using for 4 years, and if I’m able to recover very easily after the 4 years I might continue to use it until I need my fertility. If a recovery was difficult I intended on not using test until I’m done having kids.

 

[madcap71]

Wow that’s long you started around 20, I definitely don’t intend on using for that long or nearly as extreme. I will for sure get a sperm analysis for an idea of the chances of me recovering.

Also you recommend me having a period where I pct and get fertility back. How often would you recommend doing this, for example after every 2 years?

I intend on using for 4 years, and if I’m able to recover very easily after the 4 years I might continue to use it until I need my fertility. If a recovery was difficult I intended on not using test until I’m done having kids.

Don't use for 4 years straight. You're asking for problems here.

Do 12-16 week cycles with the same time off (or on TRT doses) in between. I would do the PCT/recovery in between every blast, personally.

 

[uzmah5]

Don't use for 4 years straight. You're asking for problems here.

Do 12-16 week cycles with the same time off (or on TRT doses) in between. I would do the PCT/recovery in between every blast, personally.

I’ll definitely keep it in mind, I’ll be looking into it more myself. I appreciate the advice and help

 

[CypherOCE]

I’m aware there is no guarantee, the point of this post is to decrease the odds I know it ca never be 0. I’m aware even without any sort of early prevention as long the cycles used aren’t retarded almost every recovers.

The main point of this post was to see what I can do from day 1 to increase the odds in my favour.

There is nothing you can do to increase the odds. ACTUALLY I guess that’s a little lie

Don’t start taking AAS is the only thing you can do have kids first and then do as you please.

Skip 19nors and stick with testosterone based gear - doesn’t give you heaps of options but test is always easier to recover from

 

[uzmah5]

There is nothing you can do to increase the odds. ACTUALLY I guess that’s a little lie

Don’t start taking AAS is the only thing you can do have kids first and then do as you please.

Skip 19nors and stick with testosterone based gear - doesn’t give you heaps of options but test is always easier to recover from

Fair enough, well besides the usual don’t take AAS is there any routine for how long you should cruise and how long you should come off for example 8 months on 4 months off. Since if you don’t use it you lose it kind of applies.

The only thing I would’ve stacked with test is anavar and maybe sarms.

 

[Noah Wixx]

I appreciate the detailed log, this seems to be the general theme that I’ve noticed almost everyone seems to recover with pct around the 3-4 month mark.

The main question was more so is there any procedures/insurance that I can do from day 1 to help make recovery or maintain function of my balls while on test. Which is why I mentioned running hcg year round. So if you have any tips you’ve learnt from your experience with using test they would be greatly appreciated.

Before I do begin any sort of cycle I’ll be doing tests to make sure I’m healthy and fertile. Realistically I’ll think I’ll be fine considering I’m young and I highly doubt I have any issues with my fertility and testosterone

Not really its all a huge gamble as thus is never one size fits all kind of situation, either you stay off all the drugs and maintain fertility, or you roll the dice shut yourself down and then hope a proper pct works and in time you recover all the vital things that go into keeping fertility.

In the end you might spend alot of money and time on testing to fix a possible problem you never would of had, had you not got on test, hard knowing what your body will and wont do.

 

[madcap71]

Fair enough, well besides the usual don’t take AAS is there any routine for how long you should cruise and how long you should come off for example 8 months on 4 months off. Since if you don’t use it you lose it kind of applies.

The only thing I would’ve stacked with test is anavar and maybe sarms.

20 years old is too young to blast and cruise. I would say it's too young to do gear but I started at 21 (regretted it).

If you're going to start gear young, cycle and do PCT. There's no point using test indefinitely, if you don't have to. I did PCT with my cycles well into my mid thirties.

 

[uzmah5]

Not really its all a huge gamble as thus is never one size fits all kind of situation, either you stay off all the drugs and maintain fertility, or you roll the dice shut yourself down and then hope a proper pct works and in time you recover all the vital things that go into keeping fertility.

In the end you might spend alot of money and time on testing to fix a possible problem you never would of had, had you not got on test, hard knowing what your body will and wont do.

So far I’m definitely leaning towards using test. The point has gotten across besides the basic responsible cycle practices there is nothing else that I can do. Regardless the odds of being permanently infertile is very low and there is usually little context provided

 

[uzmah5]

20 years old is too young to blast and cruise. I would say it's too young to do gear but I started at 21 (regretted it).

If you're going to start gear young, cycle and do PCT. There's no point using test indefinitely, if you don't have to. I did PCT with my cycles well into my mid thirties.

Honestly I’m leaning towards starting despite the fact there isn’t much or anything I can do early on to prevent the chance of infertility I’m also leaning towards 8 months on and 4 months off

 

[Noah Wixx]

Honestly I’m leaning towards starting despite the fact there isn’t much or anything I can do early on to prevent the chance of infertility I’m also leaning towards 8 months on and 4 months off

Why 8 months on ? And at what dose thats a strange way of doing this

 

[CypherOCE]

Time on and off doesn’t change the odds in terms of a negative outcome regarding fertility in all honesty it’s just luck whether or not you regain fertility or not

I managed to do it after 2.5 years of test, mast, primo and tren with orals inbetween - it can be done but you also run the risk it won’t work

Just part of the game

 

[uzmah5]

Time on and off doesn’t change the odds in terms of a negative outcome regarding fertility in all honesty it’s just luck whether or not you regain fertility or not

I managed to do it after 2.5 years of test, mast, primo and tren with orals inbetween - it can be done but you also run the risk it won’t work

Just part of the game

I heard the time does affect it, apparently the concept of you don’t use you lose it applies. But realistically it seems just about everyone recovers unless they had pre existing issues, a lot of times it hard to give a answer on these topics because many people don’t test these things before hopping on.

 

[uzmah5]

Why 8 months on ? And at what dose thats a strange way of doing this

It’s just a protocol I heard of, from vigorous steve

 

[Noah Wixx]

It’s just a protocol I heard of, from vigorous steve

For a new user or advanced user ? Because its rare someone is on for 8 months unless its life time trt, or maybe 20 weeks max if competing on stage, no one just stays on for 8 months straight brother.

 

[uzmah5]

For a new user or advanced user ? Because its rare someone is on for 8 months unless its life time trt, or maybe 20 weeks max if competing on stage, no one just stays on for 8 months straight brother.

It’s just to restore fertility temporarily, 4 months on hcg.

In case you’re interested I’ll post the link below

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[Noah Wixx]

It’s just to restore fertility temporarily, 4 months on hcg.

In case you’re interested I’ll post the link below

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Hcg is another gamble brother you cant count on that, i believe ive seen that episode it was a good one from what i remember, just keep in mind venturing down this path is all a big what if and you cant determine what and if will happen with fertility with all of this.

hCG used short-term to “wake up” testes
Followed by SERM therapy

(Clomid/Enclo) to restart LH + FSH naturally

Keep in mind it's all going to cost money and take a while to bring functions and systems back online especially if suppressed.

Hcg only mimics function while shutdown your still shutdown while introducing testosterone from an outside source.

Plus blood work will be needed before mid way and 3-4 weeks after cycle alot goes into this if you want to do this correctly you need baseline bloodwork a full indepth pannel.

 

[uzmah5]

Hcg is another gamble brother you cant count on that, i believe ive seen that episode it was a good one from what i remember, just keep in mind venturing down this path is all a big what if and you cant determine what and if will happen with fertility with all of this.

hCG used short-term to “wake up” testes
Followed by SERM therapy

(Clomid/Enclo) to restart LH + FSH naturally

Keep in mind it's all going to cost money and take a while to bring functions and systems back online especially if suppressed.

Hcg only mimics function while shutdown your still shutdown while introducing testosterone from an outside source.

Plus blood work will be needed before mid way and 3-4 weeks after cycle alot goes into this if you want to do this correctly you need baseline bloodwork a full indepth pannel.

I understand there is no guarantee, realistically the chance of becoming permanently infertile is extremely small.

I have no issues with paying more to do it right, if I’m going use test I’ll do it right I won’t try to save money at the cost of my fertility. I was going to use hcg, rfsh or hmg, enclomiphene and possibly a ai. I went through Leo and longevity’s videos on pct and recovering fertility.

I’m certainly no expert so I’ll be sticking to milder compounds and slowly work up dosages and closely monitor how I feel plus get bloodwork.

 

[madcap71]

Honestly I’m leaning towards starting despite the fact there isn’t much or anything I can do early on to prevent the chance of infertility I’m also leaning towards 8 months on and 4 months off

You're not listening very well here....
Don't do 8 months on, 4 off. Try 16 weeks on, 4 weeks PCT, 16 weeks off, 16 weeks on, PCT etc...

 

[CypherOCE]

It’s just to restore fertility temporarily, 4 months on hcg.

In case you’re interested I’ll post the link below

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

It took Steve a whole year to recover his fertility parameters to a level that was acceptable and still had to go down the IVF route

 

[Noah Wixx]

You're not listening very well here....
Don't do 8 months on, 4 off. Try 16 weeks on, 4 weeks PCT, 16 weeks off, 16 weeks on, PCT etc...

Im trying my best to get through lol

 

[CypherOCE]

Im trying my best to get through lol

We’ve all tried, can only lead the horse to the water.. we can’t make it drink

 

[Noah Wixx]

We’ve all tried, can only lead the horse to the water.. we can’t make it drink

Yeah unfortunately that is the reality of the situation

 

[Mobster]

You have to understand that most podcasts, inc Vigorous Steve's, do not deal with the mind set. Meaning why ANYONE needs, esp when new to PEDs to stay ON for 8 months. They don't address why someone who is, arguably, not fully physically matured or, as has been addressed literally not mentally matured (typically both occur around age 25).

Is VS's approach to fertility better than an endo? Again most people struggling with fertility are NOT using PEDS (again we've covered this on shows). To then have the same issues as others and then be on, as is becoming common, GRAMS of steroids per week and still think they're gonna be ok (in reality HOPE) makes no sense.

There are too many examples of would be 'influencers' completely and utterly fkin up. 19 year olds having heart attacks and then tiktoking injecting themselves the next day

Then, as has been discussed on our podcasts on fertility, only those who are successful with so-called fertility protocols get referenced. What about those for whom it failed?

VS is ONE example of a possible protocol. There are other options. Why are you seemingly going towards what looks the worst example of a way to use?

 

[Mobster]

We’ve all tried, can only lead the horse to the water.. we can’t make it drink

Yep. But as I said what we offer might benefit others still on the cusp

 

[Dozer55]

I’ve been training for 4.5 years now, realistically no one is going to change my mind on peds whether I stick to peptides and mild sarms or end up using test either way I won’t be natural.

The only reason I’m considering test is because all worthwhile compounds are suppressive, before test though I’ll be trying ac262 with enclomiphene as ac262 is basically almost no suppression and enclomiphene is more than enough to recover.

I would have loved to run anavar however it seems to be very suppressive and from what I’ve seen you need a test base.

If I do end up using test, the max I’d push the test to is 400mg and I’d add anavar, hgh and some other peptides maybe a Sarm as well.

You don’t need a test base with Anavar it’s a super mild steroid. Never had an issue when I use to run it alone.

 

[EvoNexus]

bro if having kids is even kinda important to you, jumping on at 20 just isn’t worth the gamble… nothing’s guaranteed and you could end up paying for it later. Dreamer/todd already nailed it: get real bloodwork + a proper semen analysis first, and if you’re serious about “guaranteeing” future fatherhood then freeze some samples before you touch anything

 

[HarleyGuy]

I see, so hypothetically if I was to do test it would be best to use it for a shorter period until I’m satisfied with the results hopefully 2-3 years. Come off do pct and continue on with enclomiphene.

I'm sorry I have to pipe in here... I can't help myself but this is a horrible idea . My "shorter periods" are 12 weeks, you're 20 and you want to do a short period of 3 years? I would bet that supraphysiological test doses after 3 years of use has no PCT protocol plan on the planet that will help you get your HPTA back other than an amount of time you may not want to wait for, and that's IF your HPTA is able to bounce back.

Also.....

ac262 as it’s very mild when it comes to suppression

This is a SARM and is very selective and crushes your LH. Full stop. There's no 'very mild' when it comes to something that is an androgen receptor agonist. There's little to no human data on ac262 and it was literally used in rodent models specifically to reduce LH and it did a great job!

You're new to this and that's fine. You're answer shopping and that's fine, it happens all the time here. My advice to you is you're an adult so decide what you want to do, make a choice then start a log on here. Get bloodwork before you start, start pinning yourself with what you want and keep your log up to date and post bloodwork 4-6 weeks in and we'll guide you from there. Just keep in mind everything that's been said as you now know the risks. But the back and forth isn't going to get you different advice that you want to here. Just do it and then stay on EVO for our help in guiding you to stay as safe as possible.

 

[Mobster]

The problem with ''answer shopping'' is only 'buying' the one that suits.

 

[HarleyGuy]

The problem with ''answer shopping'' is only 'buying' the one that suits.

Yup, precisely. He's in the wrong store then coming to EVO with that question looking to 'buy' that answer.

 

[Mobster]

The one you need vs the one you want

 

[SmallFryDevil]

I’m considering starting testosterone, my biggest concern is the slim chance of becoming permanently infertile. If I start testosterone I plan on using it for multiple years without coming off.

My biggest priority is being able to have kids in the future which is many years from now. What would be the best way to ensure fertility in the future?

From what I’ve read online some people run hcg year round to prevent the testicles from ever fully shutting down, is this the best way to go about using test if you’re biggest concern is having children?
(Pairing with a ai if estrogen is to high)

I don’t intend on doing any crazy cycles, however nothing is set in stone. As of right now though I’m intending on using 300-400mg test with anavar or sarms.

I’m 20 years old.

I would freeze your sperm before if that is critical for you. I did it. Ive been on TRT an various cycles for over 10 years now. Im 44 and im really low with sperm now, but there are ways to get it back. If I ever decide to have a kid, I would prefer to use my stored samples.

 

[LevButlerov]

I would freeze your sperm before if that is critical for you. I did it. Ive been on TRT an various cycles for over 10 years now. Im 44 and im really low with sperm now, but there are ways to get it back. If I ever decide to have a kid, I would prefer to use my stored samples.

you freeze your sperm now? @SmallFryDevil

 

[SmallFryDevil]

you freeze your sperm now? @SmallFryDevil

Did in 10 years ago. Why do you ask bruh ?

 

[LevButlerov]

Did in 10 years ago. Why do you ask bruh ?

just curious been waiting for your log update @SmallFryDevil coming?
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...olone-masteron-summer-shred-cycle-log.104992/

 

[SmallFryDevil]

just curious been waiting for your log update @SmallFryDevil coming?
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...olone-masteron-summer-shred-cycle-log.104992/

Nah not on cycle yet. Gonna do test deca and tbol. SmallFry wants to put on some real mass this winter season.

 

[LevButlerov]

Nah not on cycle yet. Gonna do test deca and tbol. SmallFry wants to put on some real mass this winter season.

You started this log and dropped off, wee need to try to keep a log going this time in 2026 when you starting the mass? @SmallFryDevil

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...olone-masteron-summer-shred-cycle-log.104992/