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LevButlerov
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@lukeobz80 how was the shoot?
shoot went really good. enjoyed it throughly. could see myself doing more and being happy doing that type of work.
now that it’s over, how can i go about reverse dieting to gain my lost muscle mass because i feel like i’ve lost a lot of muscle dropping to this leanness.
ideally i’d want to maintain this level of bf but regain all my lost muscle
chat gpt is saying 2.4-2.6k cals 200P, 60-70P, 200-230C
what do you boys suggest @LevButlerov @Npcclassicphysique champ
i honestly wouldn’t even mind if i started my test dose now.
would want to do a low test only dose and really just stay lean while building muscle. nothing crazy, just something small to give me a boost. maybe even a trt dosage
Hey mate your lvls weren't to bad from memory. Means trt dose for you wont feel anything you would need a larger dose.
500mg range roughly then?
LevButlerov
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did 500 of the shit gear for my first cycle. still don’t know if it was real or not.
pct clomid and nolva
did 500 of the shit gear for my first cycle. still don’t know if it was real or not.
pct clomid
and nolva
don’t have them back yet
what should my macros look like now that my shoot is done?
i ideally want to stay around this level of leanness having somewhat ab definition but i feel and look like i’ve lost so much muscle on this prep.
how can i go about gaining my muscle back but staying lean?
can you give me a macro target to reach please?
or you @Npcclassicphysique champ
or can one of you just give me a marco/calorie goal to start?
im unsure what to eat. i had a cheat day after my shoot so now im in limbo. do i go back to the deficit of 1800? or since i have lost muscle do i go higher so i dont lose anymore since i dont need to lean down more for a shoot.
im lost on what to aim for and eat and i dont want to either overeat and get fat and lose my progress or stay on a aggressive deficit and lose more of my muscle
please help me
@LevButlerov @Npcclassicphysique champ
considering starting a cycle.
main goal would be to lean the fuck down to have separated defined abs and try to maintain that as long as i can. would like to gain lean muscle in the process but i wouldnt mind just preserving my muscle mass and staying lean if need be
what do you guys think i should run?
i haven’t been dieting properly since my shoot, sitting at roughly 14-15% bf. haven’t gained too much, sitting at 89-90kg fully carbed up.
ideally want that lean, dry, vascular look that a cycle would give me
considering starting a cycle.
main goal would be to lean the fuck down to have separated defined abs and try to maintain that as long as i can. would like to gain lean muscle in the process but i wouldnt mind just preserving my muscle mass and staying lean if need be
what do you guys think i should run?
i haven’t been dieting properly since my shoot, sitting at roughly 14-15% bf. haven’t gained too much, sitting at 89-90kg fully carbed up.
ideally want that lean, dry, vascular look that a cycle would give me
LevButlerov
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I think since you went MIA for a long time, getting back into updating training and showing us those pictures from the shoot would be a start. @lukeobz80
don’t have them back yet
what should my macros look like now that my shoot is done?
i ideally want to stay around this level of leanness having somewhat ab definition but i feel and look like i’ve lost so much muscle on this prep.
how can i go about gaining my muscle back but staying lean?
can you give me a macro target to reach please?
or you @Npcclassicphysique champ
or can one of you just give me a marco/calorie goal to start?
im unsure what to eat. i had a cheat day after my shoot so now im in limbo. do i go back to the deficit of 1800? or since i have lost muscle do i go higher so i dont lose anymore since i dont need to lean down more for a shoot.
im lost on what to aim for and eat and i dont want to either overeat and get fat and lose my progress or stay on a aggressive deficit and lose more of my muscle
please help me
here are some pics from the portfolio shoot
Attachments
you look great in the shoot broly @lukeobz80 and thats all natty right
why dont we keep going this route? or you want to jump on cycle?
all natural
i want to start getting into content creation and having a bigger, diced physique would help.
would prefer being lean over gaining hella size.
is there anything i could run that’d strip my fat while maintaining or slightly gaining muscle?
if you want to stay lean test and anavar are your friends to start @lukeobz80
what would be a starting cycle dosage?
how long do i run it for?
and
would i need any pct/blockers/inhibitors ?
how can i run it as safe as possible
i would restart the log first training diet dial in for 2-3 weeks before we talk cycles again broly
will be starting up the log again. have a week long snow trip next week but i can track and log until then. won’t be able to track food/workout while im down at the snow as i’ll be eating out.
here are some photos of my physique as of sunday after approx 2 months of not tracking cals after my shoot.
the day before the photos i had a big carb cheat day so physique is inflated more than normal.
will upload my log tonight after my session with some updated photos
here are some photos of my physique as of sunday after approx 2 months of not tracking cals after my shoot.
the day before the photos i had a big carb cheat day so physique is inflated more than normal.
will upload my log tonight after my session with some updated photos
Attachments
here are the pre shoot photos as a reference of how much i’ve gained.
these photos were a few days out from the shoot, pretty sure it was the day after i broke the 72hr fast so i was depleted, also had barely any water that day prepping for the shoot day
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current goals -
get back into my routine, diet consistently for a month to drop back on the body fat and lean back up (thinking high carb low fats or if the boys think low carbs high fats would be better i’ll do that idm)
potentially once lean explore a test only cycle or peptide stack and or a test + var to lean me out.
long term want to stay a low body fat anywhere around 9-12%, or just lean enough to get visible abs while maintaining performance/gaining size slowly
wouldn’t mind doing a recomp once i’m at a nice level of leanness
get back into my routine, diet consistently for a month to drop back on the body fat and lean back up (thinking high carb low fats or if the boys think low carbs high fats would be better i’ll do that idm)
potentially once lean explore a test only cycle or peptide stack and or a test + var to lean me out.
long term want to stay a low body fat anywhere around 9-12%, or just lean enough to get visible abs while maintaining performance/gaining size slowly
wouldn’t mind doing a recomp once i’m at a nice level of leanness
LevButlerov
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Welcome back to the EVO family @lukeobz80 we missed you
before you talk about PEDs lets get back on training diet updates.
Can you post some normal light pics like a selfie? lol
awesome job on these pictures. i love the boxing background. reminds me of a boxing movie @lukeobz80
@lukeobz80 bros great job on this one. you pushing some good exercises. big carb cheat day gonna cause bloating dont make a habit
i love the boxing posing! def something you can put on a dating app for chicks who like a man who can protect them lol. you don't look bloated at all IMO @lukeobz80
@lukeobz80 bro this a good one. photos are looking strong ! i love this ! you should come to prison and teach inmates how to box
@lukeobz80 good to see you back. love the pics man. You are very inspirational.
@lukeobz80 Definitely keep up with the log. We look forward to seeing your progression. have fun on your snow trip, get some pics for us!
@lukeobz80 bro yoga will help you loose fat........
@lukeobz glad to see your back man. Hope all is well.
5th august 2025
put off logging but ive been training consistently and dieting.
will log exercises and upload daily from now on.
I want to run a test + anavar cycle this australian spring so i’m diced for summer.
currently on a moderate carb low fat deficit just trying to lean down a little before spring starts.
was thinking of swapping back to a keto / low carb diet for spring to further lean down and drop water retention + glycogen so i look leaner.
here’s last nights food entry. trained ju jitsu and pumped out a quick gym sesh, from memory it was
standing watson flat press machine
1 pps x 10 pulse reps
2 pps x 10
3pps x 10
4pps failed
1pps x 15
incline watson machine press
level 4 (forgot the weight equivalent) x 10 pulse teps
level 9 x 10
level 12 x 6
level 6 x 10
dips
bodyweight x 10
bodyweight x 10
bodyweight x 8
watson incline bench fly machine
5kg per side x 10
10kg per side x 10
15kg per side x 8
15kg per side x 7
cardio
jiu jitsu, normally have been doing 30mins bike 400-500 cals burnt
WILL DO A FULL NORMAL LOG TONIGHT AND KEEP IT CONSISTENT.
put off logging but ive been training consistently and dieting.
will log exercises and upload daily from now on.
I want to run a test + anavar cycle this australian spring so i’m diced for summer.
currently on a moderate carb low fat deficit just trying to lean down a little before spring starts.
was thinking of swapping back to a keto / low carb diet for spring to further lean down and drop water retention + glycogen so i look leaner.
here’s last nights food entry. trained ju jitsu and pumped out a quick gym sesh, from memory it was
standing watson flat press machine
1 pps x 10 pulse reps
2 pps x 10
3pps x 10
4pps failed
1pps x 15
incline watson machine press
level 4 (forgot the weight equivalent) x 10 pulse teps
level 9 x 10
level 12 x 6
level 6 x 10
dips
bodyweight x 10
bodyweight x 10
bodyweight x 8
watson incline bench fly machine
5kg per side x 10
10kg per side x 10
15kg per side x 8
15kg per side x 7
cardio
jiu jitsu, normally have been doing 30mins bike 400-500 cals burnt
WILL DO A FULL NORMAL LOG TONIGHT AND KEEP IT CONSISTENT.
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still not 100% on jumping on cycle, but definitely leaning towards it for career/social media reasons.
LevButlerov
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welcome back to the EVO family
@lukeobz80 we missed you.what happened to you?
How about we try semaglutide or retatrutide for you? instead of keto.
You can but what is this "career" you speak of?
how safe are those peptides? don’t like how much they’re being pushed on social media, it’s giving sketchy gimmicky vibes. Are they any good?welcome back to the EVO family
what happened to you?
How about we try semaglutide or retatrutide for you? instead of keto.
You can but what is this "career" you speak of?
Career is social media + fitness modelling which i already am one. hopping in cycle will enhance my physique, bringing traction to my social media and potentially getting me new clients with my modelling agency
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@lukeobz80 safety is relative
Semgalutide which is ozempic is used by millions.
Retatrutide is also use by a lot of EVO members.
You can read our EVO Reta mega thread yourself -
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/retatrutide-its-the-real-deal.103339/
You want to be a social media fitness model? that's a huge competition situation and very difficult.
What career do you study for now?
19.8.25
incline watson press
37.5kg x 10
48.5kg x 10
65kg x 10
81.5kg x failed (first workout after 2 week snow trip didn’t wannna push it, could’ve gotten it up but shoulder felt a lil pinch half way)
48.5kg x 10 pulse reps
db flat bench
15kg x 10 pulse
20kg x 10
35kg x 10 (shaky and felt shoulder pain a lil so i didn’t push further)
20kg x 10 pulse reps h
dips
bodyweight x 8
bodyweight x 4
bodyweight x 1
seated fly machine
26kg x 15
40kg x 10
52kg x 9
26kg x 15
cardio
treadmill 15% incline 4.5kmph speed for 30min
incline watson press
37.5kg x 10
48.5kg x 10
65kg x 10
81.5kg x failed (first workout after 2 week snow trip didn’t wannna push it, could’ve gotten it up but shoulder felt a lil pinch half way)
48.5kg x 10 pulse reps
db flat bench
15kg x 10 pulse
20kg x 10
35kg x 10 (shaky and felt shoulder pain a lil so i didn’t push further)
20kg x 10 pulse reps h
dips
bodyweight x 8
bodyweight x 4
bodyweight x 1
seated fly machine
26kg x 15
40kg x 10
52kg x 9
26kg x 15
cardio
treadmill 15% incline 4.5kmph speed for 30min
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LevButlerov
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@lukeobz80 why didnt you answer any of my posts?@lukeobz80 safety is relative
Semgalutide which is ozempic is used by millions.
Retatrutide is also use by a lot of EVO members.
You can read our EVO Reta mega thread yourself -
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/retatrutide-its-the-real-deal.103339/
You want to be a social media fitness model? that's a huge competition situation and very difficult.
What career do you study for now?
LevButlerov
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@lukeobz80 welcome back to the EVO family
good training and clean diet but you're not consistent at all about updates, it's not clear what your goals are now and if you can achieve them if you can't update even this.
updated and logged for 3-4 months straight and took time off logging. can easily achieve my goals and logging, cheers mate@lukeobz80 welcome back to the EVO family
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I responded to your update, but haven't seen your goals yet really. Not clear where you are, and the social media thing you never responded to? @lukeobz80
thurs 21 august
diet
as per photo
training
close grip lat pulldowns
40kg x 10 slow controlled feeling the movement
60kg x 10
80kg x 9
40kg x 10 slow
smith rdls
1pps x 10
2pps x 10
2.75pps x 2
1pps x 10 slow
single arm cable pulldowns bench supported
32kg x 10
54kg x 10
70.5kg x 5
chest supported t bar rows
1plate x 10
2plate x 10
3plate x 6
1plate x 10
cable extensions
12.5kg x 15
17.5kg x 9
rear delt flies single arm cable
2.5kg x 10
5kg x 8
5kg x 8
cardio
photo
diet
as per photo
training
close grip lat pulldowns
40kg x 10 slow controlled feeling the movement
60kg x 10
80kg x 9
40kg x 10 slow
smith rdls
1pps x 10
2pps x 10
2.75pps x 2
1pps x 10 slow
single arm cable pulldowns bench supported
32kg x 10
54kg x 10
70.5kg x 5
chest supported t bar rows
1plate x 10
2plate x 10
3plate x 6
1plate x 10
cable extensions
12.5kg x 15
17.5kg x 9
rear delt flies single arm cable
2.5kg x 10
5kg x 8
5kg x 8
cardio
photo
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@lukeobz80 protein is up and training is up but you need to start cycling calories and carbs IMO do you have an updated pic?
and I responded here but I can't get an answer from you
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-pre-cycle-training-and-diet-log.103121/post-1811697
@lukeobz80 really nice job on all this! the training is on point. i love the weight training
bro we love the cardio and the rear delt flies. a real iron training session. BOOM all in @lukeobz80
@lukeobz80 bros looking good as usual. you so consistent and simple workouts. very nice on tbar rows adjusting plates and reps
@lukeobz80 this one looks sweet! i really like the training. you won't go wrong with cable extensions either
good write up @lukeobz80 you are keeping things simple and strong. i got a lot of respect for it all !
@lukeobz80 great work man. I really like the volume. It’s on point
going thru a lot mentally and have fallen off track with myself and my fitness journey, but enough is enough and i’m going to start being more consistent again.
goal is to lose all the fat i’ve gained since my photo shoot, lean back down for summer in 3 months and maintain/lean bulk through summer with abs.
contemplating hopping on a test only cycle towards the start of summer if im lean enough to help me push through the lean bulk.
going to japan in february next year so ill need to have stopped the pct and cycle by then as i wont be able to take it all thru customs obviously.
if i decide not to hop on a cycle, i just ideally want to be skinny and fit and be able to maintain a lean physique.
to answer @LevButlerov, currently as i’ve mentioned i work full time driving trucks, saving up. i am trying to explore content creation on the side to at least try and escape the 9-5 (lifestyle, gym, skit content etc) and having a good physique obviously would help generate views and also make me more comfortable and confident to try new things. i also am signed as a sports model to an agency so i need to get back into shape for that for summer.
im going to start my deficit at
2150 cals
81g carbs
84g fats
270g protein
if anyone has suggestions to alter the calorie breakdown please lmk
i have 3 months until summer to get back into shape.
going to be doing 30mins of 15% incline 4.5kmph speed on a treadmill everyday.
if anyone has any tips or more knowledge and can help me change my deficit/cardio plans lmk.
currently weighing in at 93kg.
included raw daylight physique photos 12pm.
going to go hit legs now and i’ll post a log after.
love you all and keen to get myself back on track
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you are right. its as much as a mental game as anything
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@lukeobz80 the issue with all this is that it's not a hit or miss situation you should first concentrate on getting your body in check before you think about an "influencer" career. It takes time to pull this off.
You gained bodyfat in the pic for sure, how much did you gain? and have you started a GLP1?
well aware i need to get my body in check prior to posting hence the diet and log??
no i haven’t started any peptides
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But you started the steroids? update us please. @lukeobz80
no as i said in my comment from the other day, i haven’t started anything and am looking at starting something maybe in 2 months when im 2 months into my cut.
i’d want to start at a leaner base and then continue leaning down for 1 more month while the test kicks in, then maintain/lean bulk
sunday 23 august
diet
couldn’t track my dinner as my mum made a beef and veggie soup, had 2 cups of it.
training
diet
photos
training
leg press machine calf raises
40kg x 10
80kg x 6
50kg x 10
laying hamstring curls
20kg x 10
35kg x 10
40kg x 10
quad extensions
40kg x 10
90kg x 10
90kg x 6
pendulum squats
no weight x 10
10kg x 10
20kg x 10
30kg x fail
20kg x 10
cardio
20mins bike ride
diet
couldn’t track my dinner as my mum made a beef and veggie soup, had 2 cups of it.
training
diet
photos
training
leg press machine calf raises
40kg x 10
80kg x 6
50kg x 10
laying hamstring curls
20kg x 10
35kg x 10
40kg x 10
quad extensions
40kg x 10
90kg x 10
90kg x 6
pendulum squats
no weight x 10
10kg x 10
20kg x 10
30kg x fail
20kg x 10
cardio
20mins bike ride
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I think using something like retatrutide will help this situation. @lukeobz80 you should consider micro dosing it.
You'll need to up the cardio here.
24 august 2025
diet
photos
training
watson fly machine
5kg x 10
10kg x 10
15kg x 10
standing watson press
1pps x 10 pulse reps
2pps x 10 pulse reps
3pps x 5
2pps x 9
seated incline machine press
1pps x 10
2pps x 6
2pps x 3
1pps x 10 pulse reps
dips
bodyweight x 6
bodyweight x 5
cardio
30mins incline walk 15% 4.5kmph photo
diet
photos
training
watson fly machine
5kg x 10
10kg x 10
15kg x 10
standing watson press
1pps x 10 pulse reps
2pps x 10 pulse reps
3pps x 5
2pps x 9
seated incline machine press
1pps x 10
2pps x 6
2pps x 3
1pps x 10 pulse reps
dips
bodyweight x 6
bodyweight x 5
cardio
30mins incline walk 15% 4.5kmph photo
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LevButlerov
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Safe sure relative to steroids lol @lukeobz80
read our reta mega thread
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/retatrutide-its-the-real-deal.103339
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Good is good cardio is good you're back at it, I like it. @lukeobz80
so how would the diet be if i were on reta?
from what i know it just suppresses appetite right?
i’ve heard a lot of people struggle to eat over 1.2k cals a day.
wouldn’t they burn through muscle mass as well as fat if they’re only consuming 1.2k cals?
would i have to up my protein if i were to take reta to maximise keeping muscle ?
how long would i run reta for?
also where and how would i take it? its injectable right? would it be the same injection spots as any other steroid? (quad, delt, glute etc)
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It would be relative. I think you can start the retatrutide and see how you feel.
yes injectable sub Q @lukeobz80
so i’d inject it into fatty tissue? stomach etc?
what dosage would you recommend i start with and how often would i increase the dosage ?
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0.25mgs EOD pins or you can try pinning 1mg per week to start.
read
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/retatrutide-its-the-real-deal.103339
Watson make some nice toys
they do
@lukeobz80 dips and seated incline machine press is outstanding. great work on this one! the cardio is also point!
@lukeobz80 bro looking good on this. keep pushing the size and strength. all in and to the moon!
@lukeobz80 bros i give you a lot of props. this a good one. the dips are on point
EVO family appreciates you man! we love this training. true iron at its best @lukeobz80
@lukeobz8030 minutes incline walk is on point. i like the dips and i like the reps you are doing. that is making you strong!
the 30 minute walk is great to finish this. @lukeobz80 the seated incline machine press is also amazing. keep up the good work!
@lukeobz80 Solid workout right here!
26.8.25
diet
photos
training
did an impromtu workout today. Had BJJ and only had 30mins to pump out the workout before the class started
pullups
body weight x 8
bodyweight x 5
bb rdls
50kg x 12
70kg x 10
bb rows
50kg x 15
50kg x 10
70kg x 8
bar x 10
single arm kneeling cable lat pulldown
(didn’t see the weights on the cable stack but it would’ve been relevant to my other weights. did a light set x 10, medium set x 10, heavy set x 5
back extensions
10kg x 15
20kg x 10
10kg x 10
single arm cable curls
5kg x 15
10kg x 10
10kg x 10
cable curls with straight bar
20kg x 10
35kg x 10
cardio
BJJ for an hour
(will be back to my normal gym routine tonight for shoulders and arms)
diet
photos
training
did an impromtu workout today. Had BJJ and only had 30mins to pump out the workout before the class started
pullups
body weight x 8
bodyweight x 5
bb rdls
50kg x 12
70kg x 10
bb rows
50kg x 15
50kg x 10
70kg x 8
bar x 10
single arm kneeling cable lat pulldown
(didn’t see the weights on the cable stack but it would’ve been relevant to my other weights. did a light set x 10, medium set x 10, heavy set x 5
back extensions
10kg x 15
20kg x 10
10kg x 10
single arm cable curls
5kg x 15
10kg x 10
10kg x 10
cable curls with straight bar
20kg x 10
35kg x 10
cardio
BJJ for an hour
(will be back to my normal gym routine tonight for shoulders and arms)
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The diet is staying steady, but the bjj not sure how you're doing cardio with it, I would still add some normal cardio to this.
will do
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waiting
Love me some dips
@lukeobz80 way to get a good one in man. You’re putting some good work in
29.8.25
diet
photos
training
seated calf raises
1pps x 15
2pps x 10 + 5 partials
3pps x 6 + 5 partials
hip thrust machine
20kg x 10
40kg x 10
60kg x 10
80kg x 6
bb rdls
bar x 10
1pps x 10
2pps x 10
1pps x 10
abductor & adductor
10kg x 10 both
30kg x 10 both
45kg x 8 ab 35kg x 8 add
cardio 30min walk
diet
photos
training
seated calf raises
1pps x 15
2pps x 10 + 5 partials
3pps x 6 + 5 partials
hip thrust machine
20kg x 10
40kg x 10
60kg x 10
80kg x 6
bb rdls
bar x 10
1pps x 10
2pps x 10
1pps x 10
abductor & adductor
10kg x 10 both
30kg x 10 both
45kg x 8 ab 35kg x 8 add
cardio 30min walk
Attachments
LevButlerov
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You cant do low carbs low fat, you need to up the fat and moderate protein.
how does this sound
2150 cal
54g C
95g F
270g P
i have 2-3 months to cut down and get lean so i dont need too much of a drastic deficit like last time
LevButlerov
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will hit those goals for the time being and continuing the updates. i’ll include weight and pictures after gym workout aswell so we can keep track of that
probably won’t hop on reta anytime soon plus none of the aus suppliers have it in stock rn.
happy to stay natural for the time being
Really good do see
LevButlerov
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I dont know what you mean I think many Austrlian suppliers have retatrutide, you sure you checked?
will hit those goals for the time being and continuing the updates. i’ll include weight and pictures after gym workout aswell so we can keep track of that
probably won’t hop on reta anytime soon plus none of the aus suppliers have it in stock rn.
happy to stay natural for the time being
i’ll have another check later on. pretty sure only raptor had some but they’re out of stock
LevButlerov
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Check this list -
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/top-trusted-aussie-vendors-2025-q3.105545/
Ratios are getting better.1.9.25
diet
photos
training
active rest day. did BJJ, then a 30min walk for cardio
will be back in the gym tmrw for chest day
2.1.25
diet
photos
training
standing watson press
1pps x 10 pulse reps
2pps x 10
3pps x 10
4pps x fail
2pps x 13
seated watson incline machine press
26.5kg x 10
43kg x 10
59.5kg x 7 dropped into
37.5kg x 6
dips
bodyweight x 9
bodyweight x 6
watson incline plate loaded fly machine
10kg per side x 10
15kg per side x 9
15kg per side x 6
cardio
30min walk 15% incline 4.5kmph speed
diet
photos
training
standing watson press
1pps x 10 pulse reps
2pps x 10
3pps x 10
4pps x fail
2pps x 13
seated watson incline machine press
26.5kg x 10
43kg x 10
59.5kg x 7 dropped into
37.5kg x 6
dips
bodyweight x 9
bodyweight x 6
watson incline plate loaded fly machine
10kg per side x 10
15kg per side x 9
15kg per side x 6
cardio
30min walk 15% incline 4.5kmph speed
Attachments
Good to see your back luke.
Ever considered doing body-building properly becoming a mass monster?
You seam to put on weight easy, if that converts into building yu could get huge in a short amount of time.
definitely have considered it. i’ve been able to gain size very quickly all my life tbh.
im torn in between going for a roided up aesthetic physique goal like david laid / jeff seid or just stay natural and get a nice healthy physique
i honestly train purely for aesthetics and for my health. look and feel good. i don’t think id ever want to get humongous. i’d only ever go that route if i look good and could stay somewhat lean
my main priority is just looking and feeling good
I read back your log brother and i think before you go aesthetic or bodybuilding you should try to log for 3 months straight no stopping
and get on light test firs feel it after and see the results
