Approved Log Beginner Body Recomp Cycle Log

[Jayster3]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f


LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see


CW WEIGHT 240lbs


Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

Ok and we're off... glad you moved your other thread to a full on log here brother, and welcome to EVO logging!

First off, let's start off with what you can add to your log (but great first log post!)

There's a list of the top 10 logs on here right here:

Here are examples of LOG Journals you can choose to use as your template:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-testosterone-cycle-log.104133/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/sustanon-trenomast-deca-dbol-cycle-journal.105881/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-2025-26-growth-phase-log-with-psl.106514/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...var-bpc157-beligas-pharmaqo-cycle-log.104843/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...g-log-sponsored-by-purity-source-labs.103669/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...erone-cycle-and-beginner-training-log.106310/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/average-trt-back-to-savage-cycle-journal.106252
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...-testosterone-masteron-primobolan-deca.105348
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...odybuilding-log-masters-55-competitor.102611/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...ron-npp-tren-anadrol-log-to-stage-2025.102590

My log is here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/sustanon-trenomast-deca-dbol-cycle-journal.105881/
You can look at the last few "log updates" to get a feel for how serious supplementation is as well as training details.

Also, take a look at what I have, or any of those others have, in terms of detail that you might have missed and at that here. Also take a look at a structure you like and notice that From July to September I updated mine daily, this gave me the best results.

Here's some very early on comments and feedback for you:

At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good

And it will be again. A goal can be to get you off of BP medication using gym, diet, and supplements.

Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)

Is this daily and how long have you been on this daily?

Febuxostat (gout)

Is this used PRN like 'as needed' I'm assuming? No need for this daily unless there's something else we don't know.

As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

The gym will be crucial this time, we don't want to just hammer cardio and go calorie deficit and get 'skinny fat' again. What is your training history in detail and what exercises are you familiar with?

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f

Good macros for fat loss. You're a little low on calories if we start you on gym training but we can cross that bridge later.

I've struggled being fat most of my life

No problem, now we'll pay close attention to macros and get you lifting.

Really do take a look at some logs to get some ideas. We'll have to get you lifting and adjust your macros so you're not using cardio and calorie deficit to accomplish this.

Compounds to consider for now: You would benefit greatly by using Retatrutide. Let's let that be your first compound you add that isn't relying the most on your training/diet/macros/supps. Is Retatrutide in your budget?

 

[Jayster3]

Is this daily and how long have you been on this daily?

Yes

Is this used PRN like 'as needed' I'm assuming? No need for this daily unless there's something else we don't know.

Everyday to maintain a low uric acid

just

I will send a program im following now. Totally forgot

if

It can be probably im not consistent on it sometimes, but even some snacks lets say brings me up to 2000-2300 calories at most, I shouldnt be really getting fatter. I understand if that snack was a mcdonalds.

Retatrutide. Let's let that be your first compound you add that isn't relying the most on your training/diet/macros/supps. Is Retatrutide in your budget?

Yes, I bought 10 vials to start waiting for it to arrive

 

[Jayster3]

Im waiting for my questdiagonostic testosterones test.

 

[Jayster3]

Here's my current workout! Is there a app that's a bit better tracking workouts?

 

[teeganJohn]

10 vials of Retatrutide? You're going all in! Stoked to see how this recomp goes. Definitely gonna follow along and maybe steal some workout ideas if you're cool with it. Keep us updated!

 

[LevButlerov]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

welcome to the EVO family @Jayster3 thank you for sharing!

Current weight you are at 240?

I would start with blood work, can you get blood work done at your location?

please start tracking food and posting, I see you posted macros for 1 day lets do eD

supplements
Are you taking high doses Vitamin C?
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?

are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolutionary-bodybuilding-radio/id1798623410
https://open.spotify.com/show/53q1RFTgG4h6TQHsJ4xY6Z

View attachment 150489View attachment 150490View attachment 150491View attachment 150492

Im waiting for my questdiagonostic testosterones test.

View attachment 150497Here's my current workout! Is there a app that's a bit better tracking workouts?

 

[Warthog61]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

Good stuff bro, welcome! A ton of us are on a similar journey. Looking forward to your transformation!!!

 

[Jayster3]

10 vials of Retatrutide? You're going all in! Stoked to see how this recomp goes. Definitely gonna follow along and maybe steal some workout ideas if you're cool with it. Keep us updated!

If I can inspire great because I have no idea what I’m doing haha. My first dose is tomorrow at 2.5mg

 

[Jayster3]

welcome to the EVO family @Jayster3 thank you for sharing!

Current weight you are at 240?

I would start with blood work, can you get blood work done at your location?

please start tracking food and posting, I see you posted macros for 1 day lets do eD

supplements
Are you taking high doses Vitamin C?
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?

are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolutionary-bodybuilding-radio/id1798623410
https://open.spotify.com/show/53q1RFTgG4h6TQHsJ4xY6Z

Yes 240. Don’t let my slim down photo confuse you

Blood besides testerstorone is up.

Uhh I’m inconsistent with physician choice probiotics and digestive enzymes.

No multi or vitamin c, no husk. Should I take? Any recommendations?

 

[stevesmi]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

@Jayster3 there is certainly a lot of tools you could go after in your arsenal to get you the physique that you want. My advice is food prepping and fasted cardio every single day. That's very important.

 

[ceo]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

bros if you want to lose stomach fat you come to right place. you gonna get great results trust me. i got a lot of confidence in you @Jayster3

 

[HarleyGuy]

Yes, I bought 10 vials to start waiting for it to arrive

Once they arrive let us know. Tag a mod and we'll get you up and running with this at 1mg/week. It's going to be a game changer and is needed I believe because there seems to be lots of food noise for you and hidden calories in those snacks.

If you're new to mixing peptides you can learn here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/how-to-mix-peptides.107113/

In your old thread I gave you the how-to on starting a log but so far we need more detail. Great title chosen by the way I like it. @LevButlerov posted links to our podcasts you can find easy listening for any topic on there.

The gym and workouts for you are going to be key here, which is what was missing when you won that bet and got down to 190.

I have a good feeling about your transformation bro if you get in that gym, let's do this!

 

[Jayster3]

@Jayster3 there is certainly a lot of tools you could go after in your arsenal to get you the physique that you want. My advice is food prepping and fasted cardio every single day. That's very important.

For sure. Only hard part is weekends when I’m out with gf . Best I can do is under eat calories.

 

[Jayster3]

Once they arrive let us know. Tag a mod and we'll get you up and running with this at 1mg/week. It's going to be a game changer and is needed I believe because there seems to be lots of food noise for you and hidden calories in those snacks.

If you're new to mixing peptides you can learn here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/how-to-mix-peptides.107113/

In your old thread I gave you the how-to on starting a log but so far we need more detail. Great title chosen by the way I like it. @LevButlerov posted links to our podcasts you can find easy listening for any topic on there.

The gym and workouts for you are going to be key here, which is what was missing when you won that bet and got down to 190.

I have a good feeling about your transformation bro if you get in that gym, let's do this!

Thank you! What else am I missing besides bloodwork? In terms of everything else there’s not much extra. I am open to looking in to supplements. Any brands that has all the vitamins I need?

 

[HarleyGuy]

View attachment 150489View attachment 150490View attachment 150491View attachment 150492

Im waiting for my questdiagonostic testosterones test.

Bloods look fine. No worries here. Post your test levels when received and @ tag a mod to review. Next time you'll wanna get a lot of new bloodtests for on cycle.
You can find more info on what to test for here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/

What else am I missing besides bloodwork?

Besides bloodwork at this point just missing log updates daily and the added details that @LevButlerov mentioned including workout details

I am open to looking in to supplements.

Supplements are huge. Your first line of defence is N2Guard. I use this all year round.
You can buy it here: https://n2guard.com/
Or here: https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/

Any brands that has all the vitamins I need?

I use Mutant brand, see pic.

 

[Jayster3]

Bloods look fine. No worries here. Post your test levels when received and @ tag a mod to review. Next time you'll wanna get a lot of new bloodtests for on cycle.
You can find more info on what to test for here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/


Besides bloodwork at this point just missing log updates daily and the added details that @LevButlerov mentioned including workout details


Supplements are huge. Your first line of defence is N2Guard. I use this all year round.
You can buy it here: https://n2guard.com/
Or here: https://www.needtobuildmuscle.com/


I use Mutant brand, see pic.

I ordered a N2Guard.

As for the logs I can do weekly or is there a app that can basically sum up? As you can see I use google sheet, but I've seen apps that can do reps and timer too.

I promise monday for diet i'll be on point. As for Weekends I will try to under eat calories. Because of work, I will update on a weekly schedule and pop in here for questions.

Man since all the people have build muscle I have really dumb newbie questions that I feel like my fingers will crap up just typing.

I'll make another post so that people can comment on their experience

 

[HarleyGuy]

I ordered a N2Guard.

As for the logs I can do weekly or is there a app that can basically sum up? As you can see I use google sheet, but I've seen apps that can do reps and timer too.

I promise monday for diet i'll be on point. As for Weekends I will try to under eat calories. Because of work, I will update on a weekly schedule and pop in here for questions.

Man since all the people have build muscle I have really dumb newbie questions that I feel like my fingers will crap up just typing.

I'll make another post so that people can comment on their experience

I have really dumb newbie questions that I feel like my fingers will crap up just typing.

You can ask them all here, no judgement. We were all in the same boat as you back in the day, then you just learn off EVO tap into the 100's of years of experience we all have as a whole

 

[Jayster3]

Please help me rewire my brain too. For these exercise I got all my reps in other than lateral raises, it's a tough one I know... . I also want to leave my ego at the door. If I complete my sets and reps 10-12, I can increase the weight by 1lb, 3lbs or even 5lbs right? Let's say for the side lateral, do I do that weight again next week until I can go to 12? Even if I do, the next weight is 15 and lets be real, muscle don't grow that fast to keep a good form doing 15lbs. at most I can do 1 set until I break form.

My idea is this, the weight you lift the heavier, the bigger muscle you have. I'm not really trying to hit PRs, but at least for bench, squats I want to do at least my BW, and 1.5 for squats. I dont want to do deadlifts and prefer more of RDL as that applies to more sport movements. I notice that my chest might progess faster than back?

I also have sometimes issues feeling back muscle or at least questioning if i'm doing right.

So far working out. Last set or last rep that I can do, I push to that 1 rep before like ok I know I will fatigue and need a spotter. Chest press for example, you are stuck at like that halfway point and cant lock out, that kind of feeling.

Let me know your thoughts! Sorry my brains all over the place haha

 

[G-Merc 80]

Thank you! What else am I missing besides bloodwork? In terms of everything else there’s not much extra. I am open to looking in to supplements. Any brands that has all the vitamins I need?

Welcome to the awesome Evo family mate.

When you get your bloodwork done, can I suggest you add a full thyroid panel TSH, Free T3, and Free T4 alongside your hormone panel. It gives a much clearer picture of where your metabolism and overall system are at

 

[Jayster3]

Welcome to the awesome Evo family mate.

When you get your bloodwork done, can I suggest you add a full thyroid panel TSH, Free T3, and Free T4 alongside your hormone panel. It gives a much clearer picture of where your metabolism and overall system are at

oh boy... never heard of these test before..

 

[Jayster3]

Welcome to the awesome Evo family mate.

When you get your bloodwork done, can I suggest you add a full thyroid panel TSH, Free T3, and Free T4 alongside your hormone panel. It gives a much clearer picture of where your metabolism and overall system are at

If there's a list, please provide me a fill list and if there's a company that's pretty cheap and affordable. I see quest diagnostic is close to my work but I see each test has a cost. Dont know if that's a fair price

 

[G-Merc 80]

oh boy... never heard of these test before..

Even if you just go TSH, little summary below what you will get to see, just based on your first post- helps know if there are any issues of your comment that clean eating and deficit you are struggling to lose weight, without knowing the rest of your habits and movement this will help

TSH

A test for thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) is done to:
Find out whether the thyroid gland is working properly.•An underactive thyroid gland (hypothyroidism) can cause symptoms such as weight gain, tiredness, dry skin, constipation, a feeling of being too cold, or frequent menstrual periods.
An overactive thyroid (hyperthyroidism) can cause symptoms such as weight loss, rapid heart rate, nervousness, diarrhea, a feeling of being too hot

 

[G-Merc 80]

If there's a list, please provide me a fill list and if there's a company that's pretty cheap and affordable. I see quest diagnostic is close to my work but I see each test has a cost. Dont know if that's a fair price

Where are you located, one of us will be able to point you in the right direction

 

[Jayster3]

Where are you located, one of us will be able to point you in the right direction

Im in Long Island, NY

 

[G-Merc 80]

Im in Long Island, NY

@LevButlerov would you or @stevesmi have any suggestions?

 

[Jayster3]

Where are you located, one of us will be able to point you in the right direction

So typically a normal bloodwork like I have, hormone and TSh

 

[LevButlerov]

If there's a list, please provide me a fill list and if there's a company that's pretty cheap and affordable. I see quest diagnostic is close to my work but I see each test has a cost. Dont know if that's a fair price

did you check private MD? @Jayster3

 

[G-Merc 80]

So typically a normal bloodwork like I have, hormone and TSh

Don't always need TSH, but based on what you said in your first post it is a good to have so if there is an issue you can get it sorted.

 

[Mobster]

Re the 'on/off' training - start by making this time STICK

 

[stevesmi]

For sure. Only hard part is weekends when I’m out with gf . Best I can do is under eat calories.

Don’t stress so much about counting calories. That is weight watchers. Focus on quality foods first and food prep
Also find something else to do with gf. Cook a meal together at home. Eating out is no good. They drench food in nasty oils and it’s all low quality

 

[2Thick]

Im in Long Island, NY

read steve's bloodwork article and thread. @Jayster3 it will show you what bloods you need. then take that to your doctor to get it done.

 

[ROIDDERS]

So typically a normal bloodwork like I have, hormone and TSh

@Jayster3 You definitely want to get your hormones checked. But there's more important things also like your organs, your liver, kidneys and heart health really take a beating.

 

[Ulter]

Im in Long Island, NY

you guys have really good healthcare up there in the northeast. should be very easy to get it done. just ask the doctor for a full hormone and organ panel @Jayster3

 

[Jayster3]

View attachment 150735

Please help me rewire my brain too. For these exercise I got all my reps in other than lateral raises, it's a tough one I know... . I also want to leave my ego at the door. If I complete my sets and reps 10-12, I can increase the weight by 1lb, 3lbs or even 5lbs right? Let's say for the side lateral, do I do that weight again next week until I can go to 12? Even if I do, the next weight is 15 and lets be real, muscle don't grow that fast to keep a good form doing 15lbs. at most I can do 1 set until I break form.

My idea is this, the weight you lift the heavier, the bigger muscle you have. I'm not really trying to hit PRs, but at least for bench, squats I want to do at least my BW, and 1.5 for squats. I dont want to do deadlifts and prefer more of RDL as that applies to more sport movements. I notice that my chest might progess faster than back?

I also have sometimes issues feeling back muscle or at least questioning if i'm doing right.

So far working out. Last set or last rep that I can do, I push to that 1 rep before like ok I know I will fatigue and need a spotter. Chest press for example, you are stuck at like that halfway point and cant lock out, that kind of feeling.

Let me know your thoughts! Sorry my brains all over the place haha

Just following on this!

 

[Jayster3]

This may look like crap but if you like Asian food. The most addicting flavorful tender chicken breast you’ll ever have. I eat this everyday and still not tired of it.

 

[Jayster3]

Took my first dosage or .5mg of Reta today! going to wait a couple of days and bring it to a 1mg and then see where i am at 4 weeks

 

[Jayster3]

What probiotic and digestive enzymes do you recommend? Is Physician's choice good or there's more?

 

[ballin2504]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

@jayster welcome aboard man. Glad to have you and nice start to the log man.

 

[RoySimpson]

Alright here we go!

I apologize if I'm missing anything and can edit the post if needed.

So about me. I'm currently 30 years old, 6ft, 240lbs. I've have lifted before in past, but always on an off. From picture you can kind of get a sense where I am at. I felt like muscle building has always been the hard part for me. I've struggled being fat most of my life, there's 1 point where I did it for a bet and got to 190, but from there i don't know what happen I gained the weight back. I remember I was very strict on diet and did a lot of cardio. As for gym at the time, I may did it, but fell off because no energy and I felt that a caloric deficit and cardio helped more.

Supplements:
Only protein powder and collagen

Medication:
amlodipine 5mg and losartan 50mg (high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight. At my lowest or healthy range, BP was good
Vyvanse 50mg (ADHD)
Febuxostat (gout)

Diet: 1880 Cals,172p, 168c, 62f
View attachment 150462View attachment 150463View attachment 150464

LOWEST WEIGHT 190lbs

as you can see here, I have no muscle or even hidden muscle definition that I was proud or was hoping to see
View attachment 150466View attachment 150467

CW WEIGHT 240lbs
View attachment 150469View attachment 150470

Goals:
Honestly my main is to really lose the stomach fat. I'm tired of seeing this and being wide, but I also want to gain muscle. I don't know about my physique compared to others, but I do see potential. Most time people think I have muscles when wearing clothes, but you all know the truth.

@Jayster3 will be following your log bro! Keep it coming!

 

[Jayster3]

Here's my TESTOSTERONE results! Please let me know feedback, off first glance, as I dont know what this means, it looks like im at the close to lower spectrum

 

[Noah Wixx]

If I can inspire great because I have no idea what I’m doing haha. My first dose is tomorrow at 2.5mg

Stick around we can help you figure it out along the way

 

[Jayster3]

I'm going to get a TRT consultation. I didnt think my levels would be this borderline low. Any advice or comments?

 

[Elevated_Allies]

(high blood pressure) I think really due to being overweight.

I had high blood pressure for years and was taking 5mg Lisinopril everyday. I lowered my stress, got on a CPAP machine, dialed in my diet and now Im off the meds and blood pressure is below 120 over 80. You can do it. Your young but you may want to get a sleep study. If your not getting proper rest then everything you do and try will be a struggle.

 

[Jayster3]

So i got off a call and looked in to TRT and (enclomiphene). For all your experience, is the the right amount? I mean sure it's "in range" but with any bloodwork, on higher or lower with the range is a bit concerning.

i wait to hear all your response!

 

[Jayster3]

So i got off a call and looked in to TRT and (enclomiphene). For all your experience, is the the right amount? I mean sure it's "in range" but with any bloodwork, on higher or lower with the range is a bit concerning.

i wait to hear all your response!

@HarleyGuy

 

[Jayster3]

So I spoke with a doctor and he recommend me 25mg of enclomid

 

[LevButlerov]

So i got off a call and looked in to TRT and (enclomiphene). For all your experience, is the the right amount? I mean sure it's "in range" but with any bloodwork, on higher or lower with the range is a bit concerning.

i wait to hear all your response!

what country TRT doc?

 

[Jayster3]

what country TRT doc?

USA

 

[HarleyGuy]

@HarleyGuy

I’m driving and had to pull over for this one. Where does your doc live I’ll drone strike his house.

Shitcan the enclo and start with 125mg TestE and test again in 3-4 weeks. Your doc is a quack. Just stay on EVO bro and self TRT if you have to.

Putting it in drive again now.

 

[G-Merc 80]

Here's my TESTOSTERONE results! Please let me know feedback, off first glance, as I dont know what this means, it looks like im at the close to lower sView attachment 152378View attachment 152379View attachment 152380View attachment 152381View attachment 152382pectrum

Your levels are low across the board, SHBG being low can also point to insuline sensitivity, Thyroid issues and higher body fat (this was me in a nut shell) from memory you were going to Start Reta? this will help insulin a lot as well as giving you the help to lower body fat.

go with what @HarleyGuy has suggested, 125mg Test e per week, if you are okay with needles pin at least 3 days per week, this will help keep it steady, when you do your next bloods 4 weeks from when you start, ensure you add E2 so we can see your estrogen levels, higher body fat will see Test aromatise a little higher, add in thyroid function testing as well (it is a good to know in my opinion).

Can I suggest adding in 15 min treadmill before and after each weight session.

I can see you're super keen and look forward to watching you smash it brother.

 

[Jayster3]

Your levels are low across the board, SHBG being low can also point to insuline sensitivity, Thyroid issues and higher body fat (this was me in a nut shell) from memory you were going to Start Reta? this will help insulin a lot as well as giving you the help to lower body fat.

go with what @HarleyGuy has suggested, 125mg Test e per week, if you are okay with needles pin at least 3 days per week, this will help keep it steady, when you do your next bloods 4 weeks from when you start, ensure you add E2 so we can see your estrogen levels, higher body fat will see Test aromatise a little higher, add in thyroid function testing as well (it is a good to know in my opinion).

Can I suggest adding in 15 min treadmill before and after each weight session.

I can see you're super keen and look forward to watching you smash it brother.

Yea I’m on 2mg Reta. Since Friday. I guess I feel appetite suppressant. Barely ate anything today. FYI Reta was after the bloodwork.

The doc could’ve recommended me test but gave me orals first as something more natural and not something like test where it shuts off reproduction. So now I’m confused…

 

[G-Merc 80]

SHBG will take time to bounce back if it was insulin which it may not be.

You're 30, do you have kids or want them, this will make a difference on guiding you.

 

[Jayster3]

SHBG will take time to bounce back if it was insulin which it may not be.

You're 30, do you have kids or want them, this will make a difference on guiding you.

Yes! But not within the next year!

 

[G-Merc 80]

Yes! But not within the next year!

Given you want to have children, different considerations need to be had @LevButlerov @HarleyGuy can help with guidance here.

@CypherOCE I know you have a wealth of experince as well with Fertility post PEDs if @Jayster3 goes down TRT, can you give some guidance?

 

[CypherOCE]

Given you want to have children, different considerations need to be had @LevButlerov @HarleyGuy can help with guidance here.

@CypherOCE I know you have a wealth of experince as well with Fertility post PEDs if @Jayster3 goes down TRT, can you give some guidance?

Certainly can I’m currently on

75mg test E weekly with 3000IU HCG and 450IU Gonal F

 

[Jayster3]

Certainly can I’m currently on

75mg test E weekly with 3000IU HCG and 450IU Gonal F

I tried reading and going through the fertility log, were you successful? Any advice on how I should start?

 

[CypherOCE]

I tried reading and going through the fertility log, were you successful? Any advice on how I should start?

I did another test today funnily enough

I’m back to being fertile so the protocol definitely works now to get the wife pregnant

What’re you taking / doing currently?

 

[Jayster3]

I did another test today funnily enough

I’m back to being fertile so the protocol definitely works now to get the wife pregnant

What’re you taking / doing currently?

View attachment 152733

View attachment 152735

nice and congrats! these are results while being on test? Currently im not on anything but 2mg of reta. Doc prescribe me to enclodim to bring up test without sacrificing fertility for 3 months

 

[CypherOCE]

nice and congrats! these are results while being on test? Currently im not on anything but 2mg of reta. Doc prescribe me to enclodim to bring up test without sacrificing fertility for 3 months

Just be careful with Reta as it can raise cortisol as your body will be stressed as you’re losing weight this can be detrimental to your fertility

You might be fertile anyway if you haven’t started a cycle, have you got a test yet? There’s the at home version I used called YoSperm or you can get one done at a pathology place

After you know what your baseline is - we can then come up with something to help if they’re low or do nothing at all if they’re all normal.

 

[Jayster3]

Just be careful with Reta as it can raise cortisol as your body will be stressed as you’re losing weight this can be detrimental to your fertility

You might be fertile anyway if you haven’t started a cycle, have you got a test yet? There’s the at home version I used called YoSperm or you can get one done at a pathology place

After you know what your baseline is - we can then come up with something to help if they’re low or do nothing at all if they’re all normal.

I did a bloodwork for LH and FSH so I should be getting results back soon.

 

[LevButlerov]

I did a bloodwork for LH and FSH so I should be getting results back soon.

waiting post in your log when up

 

[HarleyGuy]

Your levels are low across the board, SHBG being low can also point to insuline sensitivity, Thyroid issues and higher body fat (this was me in a nut shell) from memory you were going to Start Reta? this will help insulin a lot as well as giving you the help to lower body fat.

go with what @HarleyGuy has suggested, 125mg Test e per week, if you are okay with needles pin at least 3 days per week, this will help keep it steady, when you do your next bloods 4 weeks from when you start, ensure you add E2 so we can see your estrogen levels, higher body fat will see Test aromatise a little higher, add in thyroid function testing as well (it is a good to know in my opinion).

Can I suggest adding in 15 min treadmill before and after each weight session.

I can see you're super keen and look forward to watching you smash it brother.

Well said.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Given you want to have children, different considerations need to be had @LevButlerov @HarleyGuy can help with guidance here.

@CypherOCE I know you have a wealth of experince as well with Fertility post PEDs if @Jayster3 goes down TRT, can you give some guidance?

You must have mentioned wanting to try for kids soon if your doc insists on enclo? Can you give us more detail? I'm still getting to the bottom of your log so apologies if this gets addressed but I wanted to add this in.

EDIT: Done your log and I see you're trying for kids it seems, this explains the enclo vs. test issue. Drone strike aborted.

 

[Jayster3]

You must have mentioned wanting to try for kids soon if your doc insists on enclo? Can you give us more detail? I'm still getting to the bottom of your log so apologies if this gets addressed but I wanted to add this in.

EDIT: Done your log and I see you're trying for kids it seems, this explains the enclo vs. test issue. Drone strike aborted.

Yes having kids, but only in like after a year +. because I will be traveling, let's start weekly updates starting next monday. I'll get me enclo tomorrow and report back in, but is it bad? Since im on low side of test this bringing me up to normal should be good?

 

[Jayster3]

@G-Merc 80 Do I have to get a doctor or a NP to prescribe it or can I just buy it here? I'm all for test, not scared of needle or anything, just the fertility in the end if I want to have, you know. If it doesn't kill me I'm all for it. Also dont plan on abusing it whatsoever.

 

[HarleyGuy]

Yes having kids, but only in like after a year +. because I will be traveling, let's start weekly updates starting next monday. I'll get me enclo tomorrow and report back in, but is it bad? Since im on low side of test this bringing me up to normal should be good?

Since fertility will be an ongoing concern in the next year and given your goals aren't to skyrocket your test and go TRT++ let's see what the enclo does after you get bloods again in about 4 weeks.

You can source Testosterone here but if you're covered for Test through insurance and with those levels you'd likely get a prescription but you'll pay way more than from our approved and trusted sources here.

Due to fertility let's just stick with the enclo and see if it gets you in the range you want as it won't mess with your HPTA causing suppression like Test will. Plan to get bloods a few weeks after you've started it and include your e2, T, FreeT, LH, FSH, SHBG and all the rest of the standard panels.

For a guide on what bloodwork you can choose to get can check here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/

 

[Jayster3]

I might consider test, but looking for a provider. What's difference between test C and E? Is there something additional I have to take to help with fertility or is that a later thing

 

[HarleyGuy]

I might consider test, but looking for a provider. What's difference between test C and E? Is there something additional I have to take to help with fertility or is that a later thing

Let's decide whether you want to go with enclo or test first. Then we can discuss dosing and fertility maintenance on Test. Enclo=less test boost and less to near zero worry on fertility vs. Test=higher more controlled test boost with HPTA suppression and possible mild-sever effects on fertility (even long after cessation) without a proper PCT tailored to you.

TestE is a slight bit faster than TestC in it's half life but they're almost the same delivery of Testosterone with Enanthate having a half life of about 7-9 days and Cypionate about 8-10 days.

You can learn more about PCT here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/the-perfect-pct-simplified.49252/

 

[Jayster3]

Since fertility will be an ongoing concern in the next year and given your goals aren't to skyrocket your test and go TRT++ let's see what the enclo does after you get bloods again in about 4 weeks.

You can source Testosterone here but if you're covered for Test through insurance and with those levels you'd likely get a prescription but you'll pay way more than from our approved and trusted sources here.

Due to fertility let's just stick with the enclo and see if it gets you in the range you want as it won't mess with your HPTA causing suppression like Test will. Plan to get bloods a few weeks after you've started it and include your e2, T, FreeT, LH, FSH, SHBG and all the rest of the standard panels.

For a guide on what bloodwork you can choose to get can check here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...what-labs-to-test-on-steroids-and-trt.107781/

aw man, i was actually getting hyped to go on test. I feel like i've wasted enough time in past not seeing muscle gains and want a quick restart. I wouldnt say it's a concern, but with all your help and pointed to the right direction, I dont mind. Should I take test with hcg?

 

[Jayster3]

Let's decide whether you want to go with enclo or test first. Then we can discuss dosing and fertility maintenance on Test. Enclo=less test boost and less to near zero worry on fertility vs. Test=higher more controlled test boost with HPTA suppression and possible mild-sever effects on fertility (even long after cessation) without a proper PCT tailored to you.

TestE is a slight bit faster than TestC in it's half life but they're almost the same delivery of Testosterone with Enanthate having a half life of about 7-9 days and Cypionate about 8-10 days.

You can learn more about PCT here: https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/the-perfect-pct-simplified.49252/

forgive me if I cant say this, but I'm looking at TRTnation, there's option for test only or test with hcg

 

[Jayster3]

HERE MY RESULTS!

 

[Jayster3]

HERE MY RESULTS!

View attachment 153396

@HarleyGuy

 

[CypherOCE]

HERE MY RESULTS!

View attachment 153396

Those are solid results for LH and FSH. you’ll likely be fine for having kids in the near future

 

[Jayster3]

Those are solid results for LH and FSH. you’ll likely be fine for having kids in the near future

But that’s before enclomid or test.. haha

 

[Jayster3]

So I just received my 25mg enclomiphere (90 tablet) and 1 mg anastrozole (15 tablet). I do have another consult with a mens healthy thingy to go over my LSH and FH then he will recommend a treatment.

What do you guys honestly think?

I guess my main concern is just being able to have kids when time comes. 100-120mg of test a week, I'm fine with

@HarleyGuy @LevButlerov @CypherOCE

 

[HarleyGuy]

So I just received my 25mg enclomiphere (90 tablet) and 1 mg anastrozole (15 tablet). I do have another consult with a mens healthy thingy to go over my LSH and FH then he will recommend a treatment.

What do you guys honestly think?

I guess my main concern is just being able to have kids when time comes. 100-120mg of test a week, I'm fine with

@HarleyGuy @LevButlerov @CypherOCE

If you have doctor supervision let him decide and report back here. We don't want you going in biased to hear his professional medical recommendation for you as he knows your history, bloodwork, and intentions better than we do; I also won't override a doctors opinion before you even have it by setting you up to disagree with him.

All the info about enclo and TRT has been provided to you including the PCT megathread which hopefully you took a look at?

 

[Jayster3]

yea I look a look at PCT. I guess that’s also when the time comes?

 

[Jayster3]

IT’S on. I got first dose of Test C 70mg doses 2x a week. I’m also going to be on hcg but I don’t know the dosage yet.

Any ideas? I can buy hcg here?

 

[CypherOCE]

IT’S on. I got first dose of Test C 70mg doses 2x a week. I’m also going to be on hcg but I don’t know the dosage yet.

Any ideas? I can buy hcg here?

You’ll need to HCG to keep your testes producing sperm, I’d strongly advise you get tested to make sure you’re fertile before you start taking test C

In any event, Test/HCG and if required HMG. this will help restart your bodies processes for making sperm

One of the trusted sources here will have both HCG and HMG

 

[Jayster3]

You’ll need to HCG to keep your testes producing sperm, I’d strongly advise you get tested to make sure you’re fertile before you start taking test C

In any event, Test/HCG and if required HMG. this will help restart your bodies processes for making sperm

One of the trusted sources here will have both HCG and HMG

Which one? Is it cheaper than $200? Also you’ve see my lsh and fh

 

[CypherOCE]

Which one? Is it cheaper than $200? Also you’ve see my lsh and fh

You’ll likely require both if you use test prior to having kids

Especially if you don’t come off and do a proper PCT protocol

 

[Jayster3]

You’ll likely require both if you use test prior to having kids

Especially if you don’t come off and do a proper PCT protocol

For the near 1 year do I have to worry about it? Just stick with test and hcg. When I gets that time either a pct?

 

[Jayster3]

Also where do you guys inject? They have me on deltoids. It doesn’t hurt but you feel it. What gauge and length?

 

[CypherOCE]

For the near 1 year do I have to worry about it? Just stick with test and hcg. When I gets that time either a pct?

You’ll want to include the HCG for the whole time IMO

250mcg daily or 500mcg EO should be enough to keep your testes producing swimmers

This “should” keep you fertile but you also roll the dice that it won’t. If you don’t have “Low Test” I wouldn’t bother taking test until after kids in the grand scheme of things if it’s only a year away I wouldn’t bother taking it until you were successful

 

[Jayster3]

You’ll want to include the HCG for the whole time IMO

250mcg daily or 500mcg EO should be enough to keep your testes producing swimmers

This “should” keep you fertile but you also roll the dice that it won’t. If you don’t have “Low Test” I wouldn’t bother taking test until after kids in the grand scheme of things if it’s only a year away I wouldn’t bother taking it until you were successful

Just in near future I’m not planning on having kids.

 

[LevButlerov]

yea I look a look at PCT. I guess that’s also when the time comes?

IT’S on. I got first dose of Test C 70mg doses 2x a week. I’m also going to be on hcg but I don’t know the dosage yet.

Any ideas? I can buy hcg here?

You dont need hcg, what is the point of it? you're just making yourself estrogenic for no reason @Jayster3

Just in near future I’m not planning on having kids.

 

[LevButlerov]

So I just received my 25mg enclomiphere (90 tablet) and 1 mg anastrozole (15 tablet). I do have another consult with a mens healthy thingy to go over my LSH and FH then he will recommend a treatment.

What do you guys honestly think?

I guess my main concern is just being able to have kids when time comes. 100-120mg of test a week, I'm fine with

@HarleyGuy @LevButlerov @CypherOCE

You will have kids dont worry about it, there are guys like @CypherOCE who fully recovered after cycling and he was on TRT

 

[Jayster3]

Also where do you guys inject? They have me on deltoids. It doesn’t hurt but you feel it. What gauge and length?

@LevButlerov @HarleyGuy

What 23g or 25g? 1inch? Also where is a good place to injected? I got mines deltoids yesterday, didn't really like it haha, a bit bruised.

I'm reading there muscular and also Subq?

 

[HarleyGuy]

For the near 1 year do I have to worry about it? Just stick with test and hcg. When I gets that time either a pct?

Bro, no! HCG not for concurrent use with Test especially if you don’t want to have kids anymore.

 

[HarleyGuy]

@LevButlerov @HarleyGuy

What 23g or 25g? 1inch? Also where is a good place to injected? I got mines deltoids yesterday, didn't really like it haha, a bit bruised.

I'm reading there muscular and also Subq?

Stay with delts for now. Let us know how the next injection goes. 1” is fine for delts and I use 23g but it’s personal preference really. If you’re only pushing in a small amount you can use 25g but 1.5ml or more I’d use 23g so you’re not pushing as hard and standing there for 5 mins trying to slam it in.

I doubt you’re bruised. Throw a pic up so we can take a look and see what’s going on.

 

[Jayster3]

Bro, no! HCG not for concurrent use with Test especially if you don’t want to have kids anymore.

I do want to have kids! Just not soon!

 

[HarleyGuy]

I do want to have kids! Just not soon!

Still. No HCG on cycle it’s estrogen in a bottle. It’s for PCT.

 

[Jayster3]

Still. No HCG on cycle it’s estrogen in a bottle. It’s for PCT.

Since I also have 25mg enclomi can I take it together?

 

[Jayster3]

Still. No HCG on cycle it’s estrogen in a bottle. It’s for PCT.

Sorry for back and forth. Just anxious.

To confirm, test just turns off the fertility of sperm. It doesn’t break it correct? To make body reproduce then I can do PCT to bring it back or still be on test with extra stuff like hcg, enclomid and etc?

I appreciate the patience. In regards, to cycling do I just keep taking it test? Obvious if I’m done with kids when I’m free but let’s say before then have a cycle period?

 

[CypherOCE]

Sorry for back and forth. Just anxious.

To confirm, test just turns off the fertility of sperm. It doesn’t break it correct? To make body reproduce then I can do PCT to bring it back or still be on test with extra stuff like hcg, enclomid and etc?

I appreciate the patience. In regards, to cycling do I just keep taking it test? Obvious if I’m done with kids when I’m free but let’s say before then have a cycle period?

Test can break fertility - in some rare cases. This is why it’s better to avoid it if you don’t need it before you have kids.

Can you recover fertility afterwards? In most cases 110% but in some cases no. It’s highly dependent on the person.

You’ll likely be fine but there are those cases where it doesn’t come back, I don’t say this to scare you but to prepare you for the worst case scenario.

In reference to @HarleyGuy comment earlier.. HCG is e2 in a bottle, yes. BUT you’re taking 70mg of Test you’ll be fine to run the both of them together should you wish to keep your testes active in the immediate future

PCT after a year on Test will be challenging and it’s not a guarantee it works as intended because of how long your testes have been dormant. This is why running HCG in your particular case would be beneficial since you’re on the fence about having kids soon

In my case it took roughly 3.5 months while in TRT with 1000IU of HCG and 450IU of Gonal F to get my fertility back to a level that’s is optimal

This is always an expensive venture so keep that in mind

 

[Jayster3]

Test can break fertility - in some rare cases. This is why it’s better to avoid it if you don’t need it before you have kids.

Can you recover fertility afterwards? In most cases 110% but in some cases no. It’s highly dependent on the person.

You’ll likely be fine but there are those cases where it doesn’t come back, I don’t say this to scare you but to prepare you for the worst case scenario.

In reference to @HarleyGuy comment earlier.. HCG is e2 in a bottle, yes. BUT you’re taking 70mg of Test you’ll be fine to run the both of them together should you wish to keep your testes active in the immediate future

PCT after a year on Test will be challenging and it’s not a guarantee it works as intended because of how long your testes have been dormant. This is why running HCG in your particular case would be beneficial since you’re on the fence about having kids soon

In my case it took roughly 3.5 months while in TRT with 1000IU of HCG and 450IU of Gonal F to get my fertility back to a level that’s is optimal

This is always an expensive venture so keep that in mind

Ahhh thank you. Not 70mg. 140mg (2x a week) hehe. Sure after kids hats off and test everyday with no care. Since I’m starting off scratch I don’t want to break anything yet and with all these years and experience I’m confident you guys will guide me through it all.

Even for frequency dosage for test is there pros and cons?

Also with first half injection, when do I feel it kicking in?

 

[LevButlerov]

Since I also have 25mg enclomi can I take it together?

You should save the hcg for your pct dont use on cycle @Jayster3

 

[Jayster3]

You should save the hcg for your pct dont use on cycle @Jayster3

Fair enough

 

[Jayster3]

Just so I know for websites I see the ones mentioned a lot. Is there a specific brand for test c and pct?