Blood Work Naturally high testosterone (1137) — should I avoid starting hormones?

[GoncaloR01]

Hey everyone,

I recently got my testosterone levels tested and the results left me pretty confused:

• Total testosterone: 1137 (reference: 240–870)
• Free testosterone: 35.40 (reference: 17.60–27.70)

So I’m quite a bit above the normal range naturally.

My goal was to start hormone use, but I was advised not to for now, mainly because my levels are already so high — I was told I could experience quite a few side effects if I go ahead at this stage.

For some context:

• I recently turned 25
• I’m about 6ft (183 cm)
• I currently weigh 75 kg (in the photos I had previously uploaded I was around ~70 kg, taken almost 1 year ago)
• I’ve been training for about 2.5 years
• I have a background in calisthenics and also used to train at home with bodyweight workouts

Here are some photos of my physique (first one is more recent at 75 kgs and the other ones are peak cut at 69-70kgs):

january bulk 75kgscut 70kgs
In terms of substances, the only things I’ve used are:

• Clenbuterol (20 mcg per day)
• Recently started GHK (2 mg, 5x per week)
• Retatrutide (0.5 mg every 4 days)

What I find strange is that despite having high testosterone:

• I can’t really grow a proper beard
• I don’t have a deep voice
• I don’t experience hair loss
• I have very little body hair
• And I’d say my face has somewhat feminine features

A bodybuilder told me this might be because my body doesn’t convert much testosterone into DHT, and instead more of it gets used for muscle tissue and androgen receptors.

But that raises another question for me: if that’s the case, why am I still relatively light (75 kg)?

I’m honestly a bit lost with all of this.

Has anyone experienced something similar or has any explanation for this?
Any help or feedback is appreciated

 

[rizzlekdizzle]

mate - you are young, 6 foot tall and have a very lean and impressive natural physique
Whatever you are doing keep doing it - I wouldn't touch hormones you don't need it - you have built an amazing body as it is.
There's big ol guys with T (aka Mike Tyson) with high voices
Your face probably resembles your parents
Body hair and facial hair is often genetic
None of that has to do with your high T

 

[Nasser1997o2]

You hit the genetic lottery man, don’t fuck with it.

 

[toddthelineman]

I can’t really grow a proper beard

Genetics, your skin on your face is not very androgen sensitive

I don’t have a deep voice

Again, genetics.

I don’t experience hair loss

And again, your scalp is not sensitive to androgens. My buddy shaved himself male pattern baldness in highschool to buy booze and it worked! Try that

I have very little body hair

See above

And I’d say my face has somewhat feminine features

Naaaaah. Couldn’t fool me. That’s a dude!

why am I still relatively light (75 kg)?

I was pretty much exactly your size. Check my logs to see how I eat. Before I took gear I got up to 195 pounds and still had abs. You’re quite muscular and young. You’re turning your food into energy, you’re probably using energy you don’t even realize. I did/do. You may find yourself flexing your legs in the car or gripping things. Also, if you want to impress the scale, you’ll want to work the things that really grow. Your legs and your back. Squats and deadlifts thickened me up

My goal was to start hormone use, but I was advised not to for now, mainly because my levels are already so high — I was told I could experience quite a few side effects if I go ahead at this stage

Unless your one and only goal in life is to be a bodybuilder, stay natural. You’re blessed. You can grow, but what even for? If it’s just for the sake of being bigger you’ll never be big enough. You look great! Just don’t be arrogant about being natural. So so so annoying.
And if you dooooo want to be a bodybuilder, cool! You might be decent or really good, I’m not too savvy on that, but I would say: do every single thing that real winners do EXCEPT the steroids first.

I don’t think you have much to complain about. I’m bald, my face looks like a beaver pelt, my voice is so deep it hurts to talk or yell too much. I wasn’t very hairy until years of trt, and it’s annoying. And my once pretty face is best covered by a beard now.

Good friend of mine Is 50 and he tested in the mid 800s recently. He hasn’t lost a hair on his head and his body is basically hairless. Even his legs. He’s a freak athlete, started boxing in his thirties and won a lot. He was a rugby player too, and he got himself pretty muscular back then, but he stayed small for boxing and mma. Nothing wrong with it. He’s very healthy. Not missing anything.

 

[GoncaloR01]

mate - you are young, 6 foot tall and have a very lean and impressive natural physique
Whatever you are doing keep doing it - I wouldn't touch hormones you don't need it - you have built an amazing body as it is.
There's big ol guys with T (aka Mike Tyson) with high voices
Your face probably resembles your parents
Body hair and facial hair is often genetic
None of that has to do with your high T

I want to pursue professional bodybuilding in the the next 2 years when im near (i want to start at low doses and experiment compounds to see what works for me and then compete when i think that my physique is ready to reach ifbb pro status)

 

[GoncaloR01]

Genetics, your skin on your face is not very androgen sensitive

Again, genetics.

And again, your scalp is not sensitive to androgens. My buddy shaved himself male pattern baldness in highschool to buy booze and it worked! Try that

See above

Naaaaah. Couldn’t fool me. That’s a dude!

I was pretty much exactly your size. Check my logs to see how I eat. Before I took gear I got up to 195 pounds and still had abs. You’re quite muscular and young. You’re turning your food into energy, you’re probably using energy you don’t even realize. I did/do. You may find yourself flexing your legs in the car or gripping things. Also, if you want to impress the scale, you’ll want to work the things that really grow. Your legs and your back. Squats and deadlifts thickened me up

Unless your one and only goal in life is to be a bodybuilder, stay natural. You’re blessed. You can grow, but what even for? If it’s just for the sake of being bigger you’ll never be big enough. You look great! Just don’t be arrogant about being natural. So so so annoying.
And if you dooooo want to be a bodybuilder, cool! You might be decent or really good, I’m not too savvy on that, but I would say: do every single thing that real winners do EXCEPT the steroids first.

I don’t think you have much to complain about. I’m bald, my face looks like a beaver pelt, my voice is so deep it hurts to talk or yell too much. I wasn’t very hairy until years of trt, and it’s annoying. And my once pretty face is best covered by a beard now.

Good friend of mine Is 50 and he tested in the mid 800s recently. He hasn’t lost a hair on his head and his body is basically hairless. Even his legs. He’s a freak athlete, started boxing in his thirties and won a lot. He was a rugby player too, and he got himself pretty muscular back then, but he stayed small for boxing and mma. Nothing wrong with it. He’s very healthy. Not missing anything.

I want to pursue professional bodybuilding in the the future and since i started using peptides 3 weeks ago i want to start implementing more powerful hormones like test and gh (i would start at a very low dose and mantining as long as im making progress)

 

[GoncaloR01]

You hit the genetic lottery man, don’t fuck with it.

If i won the genetic lottery shouldnt I try and pursue my dream of bodybuilding? Its either that or working a normal job wich im not interest in tbh, i love bodybuilding and everything about it so thats why i dont understand everybody argument to keep being natty? im willing to risk it

 

[BritishCanadian]

If i won the genetic lottery shouldnt I try and pursue my dream of bodybuilding? Its either that or working a normal job wich im not interest in tbh, i love bodybuilding and everything about it so thats why i dont understand everybody argument to keep being natty? im willing to risk it

Its not worth the risk.

Why do you want to be a ifbb pro...is it just to make money? Is it fame? Is it manliness?

work out exactly what it is you want.

You could make money from fitness, bodybuilding now if you wanted.

If
you ask yourself the important question, you may realize that you dont need to take unnecessary risks to get what you want.

 

[GoncaloR01]

Its not worth the risk.

Why do you want to be a ifbb pro...is it just to make money? Is it fame? Is it manliness?

work out exactly what it is you want.

You could make money from fitness, bodybuilding now if you wanted.

If
you ask yourself the important question, you may realize that you dont need to take unnecessary risks to get what you want.

Its worth the risk FOR ME,
Yes i want a to be a ifbbpro to make money and a living of it, i dont really care about fame but if it comes with it nice, its not about "manliness" but i would say that i dont like natural bodybulding at all (i think the physiques look bad lol) and its not even interesting to look at

 

[HarleyGuy]

If i won the genetic lottery shouldnt I try and pursue my dream of bodybuilding? Its either that or working a normal job wich im not interest in tbh, i love bodybuilding and everything about it so thats why i dont understand everybody argument to keep being natty? im willing to risk it

You have a great physique and you have the Test/FreeT levels of someone on cycle so I'd ride that out for now until we get you a log up and running. I'd support you in your dream to become an IFBB pro and you're in the right place to start but you have what other pros don't have which is a head start in both your natty T levels and a forum like this to guide you on the right path for success so let's start you off with a log.

We would need to understand your daily diet, training, supplements and only then could we dial in the proper cycle for you later on down the road. Also, if you plan on having kids one day you'll have to freeze your sperm and learn as much about PCT as you'll learn about gear.

Here's the how-to on logging here:


HOW and WHY TO LOG?

Why is a Log Journal important?
Accountability, self esteem, and consistency all which lead to RESULTS!

Authoring a log will actually help you way more than just dropping random updates. When you lay it all out week by week you start to see patterns in your body that you won’t catch otherwise.
Other guys here run logs all the time and there’s no privacy issue, nobody is asking for your name or anything personal, it is just training, diet, and how the compound feels.
The feedback you get is also way better because people can follow along and spot things you might miss. It also helps the next guy who is thinking about running the same compound so you are giving back while you learn.
Even if you think you might not stick with it, just starting the log makes it easier to come back and add quick notes. That way you get more out of what you are running instead of keeping it all in your head.

To really guide you we need more info from you:
Please share your diet, training, cardio, sleep, supplements etc log with us in a NEW thread using a full log journal so our guidance is based on facts you provide.
It will take 15-20 minutes max.
We have 100's of years of experience between us, so you need to post a LOG Journal with your stats (weight, height, age, years training, cycle history) diet, training, cardio, supplement, sleep details. If you don't log what you eat or train now, open NOTES on phone and start recording it there and paste here. Very easy.
Please post a Log Journal ASAP for us

There has been almost a quarter million members on here and almost two million posts with over a thousand podcasts so your Log Journal will be taken care of here! Evolutionary.org is the most visited steroid community in the world (fact!).


Here's how:

Please click the anabolic forum
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/forums/anabolic-steroids-and-peds.2/
top RIGHT you will see: +POST THREAD
click that

In Title: write your cycle name, like> My _____ Cycle Log
___ = the name of your log
example: My testosterone cycle Log
In body: write your planned cycle or cycle you doing now, your diet, training, your body weight, supps, etc and we will help you along on your cycle or help you decide when it's time.

For example: What are your supplements?
Are you taking high doses Vitamin C?
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
Apple Cider Vinegar with mother?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?


Here are examples of LOG Journals you can choose to use as your template:

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-testosterone-cycle-log.104133/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-first-cycle-log.107675/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/sustanon-trenomast-deca-dbol-cycle-journal.105881/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...o-50-years-old-and-transformation-log.108526/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-2025-26-growth-phase-log-with-psl.106514/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...var-bpc157-beligas-pharmaqo-cycle-log.104843/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...g-log-sponsored-by-purity-source-labs.103669/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...erone-cycle-and-beginner-training-log.106310/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/average-trt-back-to-savage-cycle-journal.106252
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...-testosterone-masteron-primobolan-deca.105348
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...odybuilding-log-masters-55-competitor.102611/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...ron-npp-tren-anadrol-log-to-stage-2025.102590

P.S. are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should. This podcast is about steroids, sarms, peptides, and bodybuilding:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolutionary-bodybuilding-radio/id1798623410
https://open.spotify.com/show/53q1RFTgG4h6TQHsJ4xY6Z

P.P.S. download our eBooks and learn more:
https://irongorillas.com



Do you still want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test, hormones and HPTA back up and running)
2. Diet/Supps (we must see you have this dialed in with the proper macros, calories and supplements specific to your goal)
3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper)
4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for a proper cycle suited and tailored to you)

 

[GoncaloR01]

You have a great physique and you have the Test/FreeT levels of someone on cycle so I'd ride that out for now until we get you a log up and running. I'd support you in your dream to become an IFBB pro and you're in the right place to start but you have what other pros don't have which is a head start in both your natty T levels and a forum like this to guide you on the right path for success so let's start you off with a log.

We would need to understand your daily diet, training, supplements and only then could we dial in the proper cycle for you later on down the road. Also, if you plan on having kids one day you'll have to freeze your sperm and learn as much about PCT as you'll learn about gear.

Here's the how-to on logging here:


HOW and WHY TO LOG?

Why is a Log Journal important?
Accountability, self esteem, and consistency all which lead to RESULTS!

Authoring a log will actually help you way more than just dropping random updates. When you lay it all out week by week you start to see patterns in your body that you won’t catch otherwise.
Other guys here run logs all the time and there’s no privacy issue, nobody is asking for your name or anything personal, it is just training, diet, and how the compound feels.
The feedback you get is also way better because people can follow along and spot things you might miss. It also helps the next guy who is thinking about running the same compound so you are giving back while you learn.
Even if you think you might not stick with it, just starting the log makes it easier to come back and add quick notes. That way you get more out of what you are running instead of keeping it all in your head.

To really guide you we need more info from you:
Please share your diet, training, cardio, sleep, supplements etc log with us in a NEW thread using a full log journal so our guidance is based on facts you provide.
It will take 15-20 minutes max.
We have 100's of years of experience between us, so you need to post a LOG Journal with your stats (weight, height, age, years training, cycle history) diet, training, cardio, supplement, sleep details. If you don't log what you eat or train now, open NOTES on phone and start recording it there and paste here. Very easy.
Please post a Log Journal ASAP for us

There has been almost a quarter million members on here and almost two million posts with over a thousand podcasts so your Log Journal will be taken care of here! Evolutionary.org is the most visited steroid community in the world (fact!).


Here's how:

Please click the anabolic forum
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/forums/anabolic-steroids-and-peds.2/
top RIGHT you will see: +POST THREAD
click that

In Title: write your cycle name, like> My _____ Cycle Log
___ = the name of your log
example: My testosterone cycle Log
In body: write your planned cycle or cycle you doing now, your diet, training, your body weight, supps, etc and we will help you along on your cycle or help you decide when it's time.

For example: What are your supplements?
Are you taking high doses Vitamin C?
what digestive supps you use?
digestive enzymes?
Apple Cider Vinegar with mother?
multis?
probiotics?
psyllium husk?


Here are examples of LOG Journals you can choose to use as your template:

https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-testosterone-cycle-log.104133/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-first-cycle-log.107675/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/sustanon-trenomast-deca-dbol-cycle-journal.105881/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...o-50-years-old-and-transformation-log.108526/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-2025-26-growth-phase-log-with-psl.106514/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...var-bpc157-beligas-pharmaqo-cycle-log.104843/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...g-log-sponsored-by-purity-source-labs.103669/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...erone-cycle-and-beginner-training-log.106310/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/average-trt-back-to-savage-cycle-journal.106252
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...-testosterone-masteron-primobolan-deca.105348
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...odybuilding-log-masters-55-competitor.102611/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...ron-npp-tren-anadrol-log-to-stage-2025.102590

P.S. are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should. This podcast is about steroids, sarms, peptides, and bodybuilding:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/evolutionary-bodybuilding-radio/id1798623410
https://open.spotify.com/show/53q1RFTgG4h6TQHsJ4xY6Z

P.P.S. download our eBooks and learn more:
https://irongorillas.com



Do you still want to have kids? I recommend becoming as learned as possible on steroids in this order:

1. PCT (after steroid usage how can you come off in a healthy way to get your natural test, hormones and HPTA back up and running)
2. Diet/Supps (we must see you have this dialed in with the proper macros, calories and supplements specific to your goal)
3. Training (we need to make sure you're training is consistent and proper)
4. Steroids (then, if you trust this forum which you should, we will get you squared away for a proper cycle suited and tailored to you)

Thanks for the help, yes ill start a log but first i need to start a actual cycle right? right now i only started peptides almost 3 weeks ago, should i still do a log?

 

[rizzlekdizzle]

Look man - if you want to be an IFBB pro you probably have the genetics for it - start low and go from there - get a log going - we can help

 

[GoncaloR01]

Look man - if you want to be an IFBB pro you probably have the genetics for it - start low and go from there - get a log going - we can help

Im currently working on the log, ill post it as soon as possible

 

[Demon_throne]

Its worth the risk FOR ME,
Yes i want a to be a ifbbpro to make money and a living of it, i dont really care about fame but if it comes with it nice, its not about "manliness" but i would say that i dont like natural bodybulding at all (i think the physiques look bad lol) and its not even interesting to look at

Not that you can do natural body building since you are on peps and have used clen.

 

[GoncaloR01]

here is the log (if anyone is interested): https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...-cycle-log-peptides-low-dose-test-hgh.110060/

 

[GoncaloR01]

Not that you can do natural body building since you are on peps and have used clen.

Thats a nice way to see it, now i can only do enhanced, great

 

[Alice_In_Ironland]

Its worth the risk FOR ME,
Yes i want a to be a ifbbpro to make money and a living of it, i dont really care about fame but if it comes with it nice, its not about "manliness" but i would say that i dont like natural bodybulding at all (i think the physiques look bad lol) and its not even interesting to look at

Very few pros make money or a living from being a pro - it costs a lot more to be a full-time competitor/ bodybuilder vs what it pays for the majority of pros. A lot of pros/ fitness influencers go into debt trying to uphold a certain lifestyle.

 

[Mobster]

Its worth the risk FOR ME,
Yes i want a to be a ifbbpro to make money and a living of it, i dont really care about fame but if it comes with it nice, its not about "manliness" but i would say that i dont like natural bodybulding at all (i think the physiques look bad lol) and its not even interesting to look at

What do YOU think the risks are?

 

[toddthelineman]

I want to pursue professional bodybuilding in the the future and since i started using peptides 3 weeks ago i want to start implementing more powerful hormones like test and gh (i would start at a very low dose and mantining as long as im making progress)

Well you’ve got a good base that’s for sure. You’re in the right place. I’m sure you’ll do well.

Very low dose would be like 80mg a week, which your natural levels actually have you higher than that is likely to get you already. Test and gh is where it’s at. Very practical you can’t go wrong. Maybe 300mg a week would be a really good start and you can see how your e2 handles that

 

[BritishCanadian]

Its worth the risk FOR ME,
Yes i want a to be a ifbbpro to make money and a living of it, i dont really care about fame but if it comes with it nice, its not about "manliness" but i would say that i dont like natural bodybulding at all (i think the physiques look bad lol) and its not even interesting to look at

I ask because its important for you to have a very clear "why", and because its a long (expensive) road to be the very best in your field.


You have potential though, learn all you can, and good luck!

 

[toddthelineman]

Thanks for the help, yes I’ll start a log but first i need to start an actual cycle right? right now i only started peptides almost 3 weeks ago, should i still do a log?

No requirement to be on cycle to start a log. You’ve got our support! Did you include a new wardrobe in your budget? it’s funny now but I had to buy all new shirts and jeans almost right away because nothing fit hahaha. Don’t get rid of your old clothes though! I did that too.

 

[Nasser1997o2]

If i won the genetic lottery shouldnt I try and pursue my dream of bodybuilding? Its either that or working a normal job wich im not interest in tbh, i love bodybuilding and everything about it so thats why i dont understand everybody argument to keep being natty? im willing to risk it

Enjoy being broke then

 

[GoncaloR01]

Very few pros make money or a living from being a pro - it costs a lot more to be a full-time competitor/ bodybuilder vs what it pays for the majority of pros. A lot of pros/ fitness influencers go into debt trying to uphold a certain lifestyle.

Thats why i wanna start with low doses and see how it goes, im not gonna start blasting like a retard. Low doses are cheap if you have a good source

 

[GoncaloR01]

What do YOU think the risks are?

idk you tell me

 

[GoncaloR01]

Well you’ve got a good base that’s for sure. You’re in the right place. I’m sure you’ll do well.

Very low dose would be like 80mg a week, which your natural levels actually have you higher than that is likely to get you already. Test and gh is where it’s at. Very practical you can’t go wrong. Maybe 300mg a week would be a really good start and you can see how your e2 handles that

thats the plan. Do you think that since my test is already high, adding more would probably increase the chance of side effects? I didnt start yet with test but my body responded very well to clen and i felt the reta effects in less than 24hrs (maybe my body is sensitive to substances idk)

 

[GoncaloR01]

I ask because its important for you to have a very clear "why", and because its a long (expensive) road to be the very best in your field.


You have potential though, learn all you can, and good luck!

Thanks man! yes i joined this forum to learn everything that i can and also get feedback from users with a lot of experience! All feedback negative or positive will be welcome!

 

[GoncaloR01]

No requirement to be on cycle to start a log. You’ve got our support! Did you include a new wardrobe in your budget? it’s funny now but I had to buy all new shirts and jeans almost right away because nothing fit hahaha. Don’t get rid of your old clothes though! I did that too.

ahahha yea i guess i will have to spend a couple days selling clothes on vinted ahah

 

[GoncaloR01]

Enjoy being broke then

money is not a problem for me (im not rich tho)

 

[Mobster]

idk you tell me

If you don't know then forget the idea of being willing to risk it.

 

[Mobster]

thats the plan. Do you think that since my test is already high, adding more would probably increase the chance of side effects? I didnt start yet with test but my body responded very well to clen and i felt the reta effects in less than 24hrs (maybe my body is sensitive to substances idk)

Without just plain asking (and pls don't think of that as 'research') try also looking at our articles (steroids tab), sarms (same) and podcasts links (you guessed it).

 

[GoncaloR01]

If you don't know then forget the idea of being willing to risk it.

I was asking you a retoric question (sry my english is not the best). Yes im aware of the risk but even then, would little doses of test with hg and maybe 1 or 2 compounds hurt? even if i dont want to compete, its cheap to maintain that

 

[GoncaloR01]

Without just plain asking (and pls don't think of that as 'research') try also looking at our articles (steroids tab), sarms (same) and podcasts links (you guessed it).

I looked at it but wouldnt ask to people with a lot of more experience be better? Like i said before all opinions good or bad will be welcome, im trying to learn as much as i can before i go down this road

 

[Mobster]

I looked at it but wouldnt ask to people with a lot of more experience be better? Like i said before all opinions good or bad will be welcome, im trying to learn as much as i can before i go down this road

The people who have more experience etc wrote it.

You don't want opinions on steroid use you want facts (many articles have references linked). You're not asking which shirt to wear to the club... blue or white? You're asking 'if I do X will I cause long term harm?'

Don't just LOOK. READ and understand.

Question for you - it'll take maybe 20-30 minutes to get an idea: what might be the effects on your potential future fertility (that's for you to learn) and what will you do to safeguard it (for YOU to consider)? Also, and this is a biggy, IF you go on what happens to the naturally high level? You don't require input (although some here have covered it) you need to KNOW based of off fact and science.

No one, perhaps even you at your age, here gets to TELL you what to think or do. Older and that decision is on YOU. Else wise, on a bad day and the wrong forum you'd get 'fkin go for it and start with Tren'. Hence, instead, me wanting YOU to do SOME of the work

 

[BritishCanadian]

Thanks man! yes i joined this forum to learn everything that i can and also get feedback from users with a lot of experience! All feedback negative or positive will be welcome!

At the end of the day, if i was you - naturally high test, a good physique, no money issues...the last thing I would want is to mess with that/become dependent on a substance.

We all learn the hard way sometimes, but theres nothing worse than not knowing what you have till it's gone.

And that essentially is the risk, your natural levels may not recover, your health may be negatively affected (especially if you want to push to competition levels) and as someone else mentioned, there are fertility concerns that you may want to consider.

 

[stevesmi]

I have 2 cats

one always wants to go out
one always wants to come in

we want what we don't have

in your situation you seriously are complaining about what you call a 'feminine face'.. ok? dude have you picked up a womens magazine and seen the guys in there? that is what most women like and when you get older that youngish face will be a chick magnet once you are in your 40's and 50's

you have high test and act like its a bad thing. like you wish you had low test and needed trt. cmon man be grateful !

also no body hair? man i spent THOUSANDS on hair removal laser that was minimal benefit at best. tortured myself with hair creams, razors which cause ingrown hairs, clippers that break ever few weeks. and waste hours a month shaving all the time. how i wish i had less hair

and btw you look better natty then most dudes look who use steroids. again, you view that as a bad thing.

 

[toddthelineman]

thats the plan. Do you think that since my test is already high, adding more would probably increase the chance of side effects? I didnt start yet with test but my body responded very well to clen and i felt the reta effects in less than 24hrs (maybe my body is sensitive to substances idk)

There’s really no way that a person could know that. Whoever told you that, I thought they were making stuff up. Some people get side effects that lower doses and some people can take really big amounts and they don’t get side effects but whether you have naturally high or naturally low testosterone is not going to be what determines that. I can tell you my experience, I probably had pretty healthy testosterone before I started TRT, and I almost certainly had pretty robust testosterone when I was young. And I am prone to side effects at lower doses than many other people that I see, but also I get really strong effects from lower doses and don’t really need to take very much at all.

 

[LevButlerov]

Hey everyone,

I recently got my testosterone levels tested and the results left me pretty confused:

• Total testosterone: 1137 (reference: 240–870)
• Free testosterone: 35.40 (reference: 17.60–27.70)

So I’m quite a bit above the normal range naturally.

My goal was to start hormone use, but I was advised not to for now, mainly because my levels are already so high — I was told I could experience quite a few side effects if I go ahead at this stage.

For some context:

• I recently turned 25
• I’m about 6ft (183 cm)
• I currently weigh 75 kg (in the photos I had previously uploaded I was around ~70 kg, taken almost 1 year ago)
• I’ve been training for about 2.5 years
• I have a background in calisthenics and also used to train at home with bodyweight workouts

Here are some photos of my physique (first one is more recent at 75 kgs and the other ones are peak cut at 69-70kgs):

january bulk 75kgscut 70kgs
In terms of substances, the only things I’ve used are:

• Clenbuterol (20 mcg per day)
• Recently started GHK (2 mg, 5x per week)
• Retatrutide (0.5 mg every 4 days)

What I find strange is that despite having high testosterone:

• I can’t really grow a proper beard
• I don’t have a deep voice
• I don’t experience hair loss
• I have very little body hair
• And I’d say my face has somewhat feminine features

A bodybuilder told me this might be because my body doesn’t convert much testosterone into DHT, and instead more of it gets used for muscle tissue and androgen receptors.

But that raises another question for me: if that’s the case, why am I still relatively light (75 kg)?

I’m honestly a bit lost with all of this.

Has anyone experienced something similar or has any explanation for this?
Any help or feedback is appreciated

welcome to the EVO family @GoncaloR01 you really did hit the genetic jackpot I will answer in your log more.

 

[toddthelineman]

I have 2 cats

one always wants to go out
one always wants to come in

we want what we don't have

in your situation you seriously are complaining about what you call a 'feminine face'.. ok? dude have you picked up a womens magazine and seen the guys in there? that is what most women like and when you get older that youngish face will be a chick magnet once you are in your 40's and 50's

you have high test and act like its a bad thing. like you wish you had low test and needed trt. cmon man be grateful !

also no body hair? man i spent THOUSANDS on hair removal laser that was minimal benefit at best. tortured myself with hair creams, razors which cause ingrown hairs, clippers that break ever few weeks. and waste hours a month shaving all the time. how i wish i had less hair

and btw you look better natty then most dudes look who use steroids. again, you view that as a bad thing.

All true

 

[GoncaloR01]

The people who have more experience etc wrote it.

You don't want opinions on steroid use you want facts (many articles have references linked). You're not asking which shirt to wear to the club... blue or white? You're asking 'if I do X will I cause long term harm?'

Don't just LOOK. READ and understand.

Question for you - it'll take maybe 20-30 minutes to get an idea: what might be the effects on your potential future fertility (that's for you to learn) and what will you do to safeguard it (for YOU to consider)? Also, and this is a biggy, IF you go on what happens to the naturally high level? You don't require input (although some here have covered it) you need to KNOW based of off fact and science.

No one, perhaps even you at your age, here gets to TELL you what to think or do. Older and that decision is on YOU. Else wise, on a bad day and the wrong forum you'd get 'fkin go for it and start with Tren'. Hence, instead, me wanting YOU to do SOME of the work

Again thank you for the feedback and information, im here to learn.
About the "future fertility" im certain that i can have kids if i do pcts correctly and all the important procedures

 

[GoncaloR01]

At the end of the day, if i was you - naturally high test, a good physique, no money issues...the last thing I would want is to mess with that/become dependent on a substance.

We all learn the hard way sometimes, but theres nothing worse than not knowing what you have till it's gone.

And that essentially is the risk, your natural levels may not recover, your health may be negatively affected (especially if you want to push to competition levels) and as someone else mentioned, there are fertility concerns that you may want to consider.

You have a great point that i should consider!

 

[GoncaloR01]

I have 2 cats

one always wants to go out
one always wants to come in

we want what we don't have

in your situation you seriously are complaining about what you call a 'feminine face'.. ok? dude have you picked up a womens magazine and seen the guys in there? that is what most women like and when you get older that youngish face will be a chick magnet once you are in your 40's and 50's

you have high test and act like its a bad thing. like you wish you had low test and needed trt. cmon man be grateful !

also no body hair? man i spent THOUSANDS on hair removal laser that was minimal benefit at best. tortured myself with hair creams, razors which cause ingrown hairs, clippers that break ever few weeks. and waste hours a month shaving all the time. how i wish i had less hair

and btw you look better natty then most dudes look who use steroids. again, you view that as a bad thing.

This is the only way i can make it to the top tho.
If i dont take this step, i will be just a regular guy working a regular job and i feel like i would be waisting my genetics... but thx for the honesty and regarding the "and btw you look better natty then most dudes look who use steroids. again, you view that as a bad thing." I dont see that as bad thing, but i want more, i love the gym and everything about it, its the only "hobby" in my life that made me want to become better, i played soccer, did professional swimming and turned brown belt in karate at 14 but none of this things gave me the happyness that working out gave me

 

[GoncaloR01]

There’s really no way that a person could know that. Whoever told you that, I thought they were making stuff up. Some people get side effects that lower doses and some people can take really big amounts and they don’t get side effects but whether you have naturally high or naturally low testosterone is not going to be what determines that. I can tell you my experience, I probably had pretty healthy testosterone before I started TRT, and I almost certainly had pretty robust testosterone when I was young. And I am prone to side effects at lower doses than many other people that I see, but also I get really strong effects from lower doses and don’t really need to take very much at all.

So that means that this is a "double-edged knife"? If i try low dose of test for 4-8 weeks and see that i dont respond well or have too much side effects couldnt i do a proper pct and comeback to being "natty" and be close to my natty test levels?

 

[GoncaloR01]

welcome to the EVO family @GoncaloR01 you really did hit the genetic jackpot I will answer in your log more.

thx man

 

[GoncaloR01]

also guys this is my bloodwork and urine tests:
ENDOCRINOLOGY

• Total Testosterone → 11.37 ng/dL (Ref: 2.40 – 8.70) HIGH
• Free Testosterone → 35.40 pg/mL (Ref: 17.60 – 27.70) HIGH
• TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone) → 1.06 μUI/mL (Ref: 0.35 – 4.94)

---

HEMATOLOGY (Hemogram)


Red blood cells

• Erythrocytes (RBC) → 5.46 ×10¹²/L (Ref: 4.50 – 5.50)
• Hemoglobin → 14.7 g/dL (Ref: 13.0 – 17.0)
• Hematocrit → 43.0 % (Ref: 40.0 – 50.0)
• MCV → 86.7 fL (Ref: 83.0 – 101.0)
• MCH → 34.2 pg (Ref: 31.5 – 34.5)
• RDW → 11.9 % (Ref: 11.5 – 14.5)

White blood cells

• Leukocytes (WBC) → 6.45 ×10⁹/L (Ref: 4.0 – 11.0)
• Neutrophils → 60.6 % | 3.3 ×10⁹/L
• Eosinophils → 3.5 % | 0.2 ×10⁹/L
• Basophils → 0.3 % | 0.0 ×10⁹/L
• Lymphocytes → 26.6 % | 1.4 ×10⁹/L
• Monocytes → 8.4 % | 0.5 ×10⁹/L

Platelets

• Platelets → 242 ×10⁹/L (Ref: 150 – 400)
• MPV → 9.7 fL
• PDW → 10.5 fL

---

BIOCHEMISTRY


Iron Panel

• Iron → 98 μg/dL (Ref: 65 – 175)
• Transferrin → 240 mg/dL (Ref: 200 – 360)
• TIBC (Total Iron Binding Capacity) → 270 μg/dL (Ref: 250 – 425)
• Ferritin → 206 ng/mL (Ref: 20 – 340)

Metabolic / Kidney / Electrolytes

• Glucose → 88 mg/dL (Ref: 70 – 110)
• Creatinine → 1.10 mg/dL (Ref: 0.72 – 1.18)
• Uric Acid → 5.0 mg/dL (Ref: 3.5 – 7.2)
• Sodium → 140 mEq/L (Ref: 135 – 145)
• Potassium → 4.7 mEq/L (Ref: 3.6 – 5.3)
• Chloride → 101 mEq/L (Ref: 101 – 109)

Lipids

• Total Cholesterol → 236 mg/dL (Ref: < 190) HIGH
• HDL Cholesterol → 72 mg/dL (Favorable >45)
• Triglycerides → 44 mg/dL (Ref: < 150)

Liver Enzymes

• AST/TGO → 74 U/L (Ref: < 50) HIGH
• ALT/TGP → 50 U/L (Ref: < 50) HIGH
• Alkaline Phosphatase → 60 U/L (Ref: 40 – 150)
• GGT → 13 U/L (Ref: 12 – 64)
• Total Bilirubin → 0.90 mg/dL (Ref: 0.20 – 1.20)
• Direct Bilirubin → 0.31 mg/dL (Ref: < 0.50)
• Indirect Bilirubin → 0.59 mg/dL (Ref: < 1.00)

Vitamins / Other

• Vitamin B12 → 1418.0 ng/L (Ref: 187.0 – 883.0) HIGH
• Folic Acid → 13.9 ng/mL (Ref: 3.1 – 20.5)
• LDH → 179 U/L (Ref: 125 – 220)

---

URINALYSIS (Exame Sumário de Urina) – COMPLETE


General Characteristics

• Color → Yellow
• Appearance → Clear
• Density → 1.017 (Ref: 1.003 – 1.030)
• pH → 7.5 (Ref: 5.0 – 8.0)

Abnormal Elements

• Proteins → <10 mg/dL (Ref: <150)
• Glucose → <40 mg/dL (Ref: <50)
• Ketones → <4 mg/dL (Ref: <4)
• Bilirubin → <0.4 mg/dL (Ref: <0.4)
• Hemoglobin → Not detected
• Urobilinogen → <1 mg/dL (Ref: <1)
• Leukocytes → Not detected
• Nitrites → Negative

Microscopic Sediment

• Epithelial Cells → Rare
• Leukocytes → <5 /µL (Ref: <15)
• Erythrocytes → <5 /µL (Ref: <15)

Urine Summary: Everything 100% normal – no blood, no protein, no infection, perfect pH and density.

 

[hypertrophydoug]

I think you should spend at least a year educating yourself on the in's and out's of PED usage and PCT. Brother you have insane genetics and some people's dream physique as a natty and it's such a big deal to play around with the golden hand you were dealt at birth. The brothers of the Evo Family will help you thru your cycle but you should not be coming here with a level of understanding where you would still need to be spoon-fed everything and not be able to come up with your own ideas and solutions to issues you could and will run into.

Do you truly think you have plateaued and are at your absolute peak of your natural physique and have the time and lifestyle to support being a professional bodybuilder down the line? I see no other reason to start using PEDs unless you are 100% sure you are at that point. A lot of the issues you listed about your face and voice and such are all genetics and PEDs and peptides won't do much for them. Do not expect to be sounding like Johnny Cash or having a manly face like Tom Hardy after a single cycle or anything like that.

You have won the lottery brother and obviously know your way around a gym but please do think long and hard about this for a long time and get yourself educated on absolutely everything before you make a life-changing commitment like this. Absolute beast mode already brother. Genetic lottery winner for sure. Tough stuff.

 

[GoncaloR01]

I think you should spend at least a year educating yourself on the in's and out's of PED usage and PCT. Brother you have insane genetics and some people's dream physique as a natty and it's such a big deal to play around with the golden hand you were dealt at birth. The brothers of the Evo Family will help you thru your cycle but you should not be coming here with a level of understanding where you would still need to be spoon-fed everything and not be able to come up with your own ideas and solutions to issues you could and will run into.

Do you truly think you have plateaued and are at your absolute peak of your natural physique and have the time and lifestyle to support being a professional bodybuilder down the line? I see no other reason to start using PEDs unless you are 100% sure you are at that point. A lot of the issues you listed about your face and voice and such are all genetics and PEDs and peptides won't do much for them. Do not expect to be sounding like Johnny Cash or having a manly face like Tom Hardy after a single cycle or anything like that.

You have won the lottery brother and obviously know your way around a gym but please do think long and hard about this for a long time and get yourself educated on absolutely everything before you make a life-changing commitment like this. Absolute beast mode already brother. Genetic lottery winner for sure. Tough stuff.

thx for the compliments man!
No i dont think i have plateaued im still progressing every training session, im always increasing weight and reps everyday even while cutting but get this, naturally i can get maybe 10kgs of lean tissue but that would take me like 5-10 years. If i dont have a bad response to PEDS, i can do that in less than a year, why shouldn´t i try to go this route and compete in the future? If i am a Genetic lottery winner like you said shouldnt i put this genetics to play and maximize them? If I didnt have the genetics or a good physique i could understand the argument of not hoping on and compete since that would not take me anywhere

 

[Mobster]

Again thank you for the feedback and information, im here to learn.
About the "future fertility" im certain that i can have kids if i do pcts correctly and all the important procedures

So no research then right? We have three loggers on Evo right now working on getting their sperm back to baseline in the hope of having kids etc

 

[Mobster]

thx for the compliments man!
No i dont think i have plateaued im still progressing every training session, im always increasing weight and reps everyday even while cutting but get this, naturally i can get maybe 10kgs of lean tissue but that would take me like 5-10 years. If i dont have a bad response to PEDS, i can do that in less than a year, why shouldn´t i try to go this route and compete in the future? If i am a Genetic lottery winner like you said shouldnt i put this genetics to play and maximize them? If I didnt have the genetics or a good physique i could understand the argument of not hoping on and compete since that would not take me anywhere

Then wait until you have. And if you look you'll see (esp if you have good genetics) 22lbs wont take 5-10 years. 4 max in your case. What's the rush? Going on PEDs early arguably harms future gains

 

[Nasser1997o2]

Homie just wants literally anyone to tell him to use steriods.

 

[stevesmi]

This is the only way i can make it to the top tho.
If i dont take this step, i will be just a regular guy working a regular job and i feel like i would be waisting my genetics... but thx for the honesty and regarding the "and btw you look better natty then most dudes look who use steroids. again, you view that as a bad thing." I dont see that as bad thing, but i want more, i love the gym and everything about it, its the only "hobby" in my life that made me want to become better, i played soccer, did professional swimming and turned brown belt in karate at 14 but none of this things gave me the happyness that working out gave me

If you are ready then go for it.

 

[GoncaloR01]

So no research then right? We have three loggers on Evo right now working on getting their sperm back to baseline in the hope of having kids etc

I mean yea the probability of not being hable to have kids seems very low tbh, i know theres always a risk but if i do everything properly i think i will be good

 

[GoncaloR01]

Homie just wants literally anyone to tell him to use steriods.

ahhahah thats one way of seing it

 

[GoncaloR01]

Then wait until you have. And if you look you'll see (esp if you have good genetics) 22lbs wont take 5-10 years. 4 max in your case. What's the rush? Going on PEDs early arguably harms future gains

The rush is that i started this journey "not young" and my prime years are right now, i have the next 10-15 years to grind in this, if i wait 4-5 more years working out naturaly its just waisting time when i could make those gains way faster. If im gonna use atleast trt in my 40s or something like that, then what diference it makes if i start now?

 

[toddthelineman]

The rush is that i started this journey "not young" and my prime years are right now, i have the next 10-15 years to grind in this, if i wait 4-5 more years working out naturaly its just waisting time when i could make those gains way faster. If im gonna use atleast trt in my 40s or something like that, then what diference it makes if i start now?

I don’t think you’d be wasting time at all. You could pick an upcoming natty show and start getting ready now. People who look a LOT worse than you have stepped on stage. On steroids and off. That would also give you an amazing record of your real progress if you do join the dark side.

 

[GoncaloR01]

Guys i´ve been researching and i think i´ve found a sweetspot atleast for the next upcoming months.
My natural test is already very high, so I don’t want to add exogenous testosterone as a base (extra estrogen + sides). What do yall think of using enclomiphene to keep my own LH/FSH and natural production high, preventing a big shutdown from other compounds. Adding HGH to counter the IGF-1 drop from enclomiphene and help with muscle preservation + extra fat loss.


Goal is a dry, lean recomp while keeping energy, libido and natural hormonal stability as high as possible without a traditional test base.


Cycle: 8–10 weeks on Primo+HGH.

Enclomiphene 6.25–12.5 mg/day
HGH 2–4 IU/day
Primobolan (Methenolone Enanthate) 300–400 mg/week (split 2x/3x)

Questions for you guys:
Is enclomiphene + HGH enough to keep things stable at 300–400 mg Primo?
Any better mild injectable or tweaks?
Missing on-cycle supports?

Bloodwork before/mid/post already planned.


Thanks for any input!

 

[toddthelineman]

Guys i´ve been researching and i think i´ve found a sweetspot atleast for the next upcoming months.
My natural test is already very high, so I don’t want to add exogenous testosterone as a base (extra estrogen + sides). What do yall think of using enclomiphene to keep my own LH/FSH and natural production high, preventing a big shutdown from other compounds. Adding HGH to counter the IGF-1 drop from enclomiphene and help with muscle preservation + extra fat loss.


Goal is a dry, lean recomp while keeping energy, libido and natural hormonal stability as high as possible without a traditional test base.


Cycle: 8–10 weeks on Primo+HGH.

Enclomiphene 6.25–12.5 mg/day
HGH 2–4 IU/day
Primobolan (Methenolone Enanthate) 300–400 mg/week (split 2x/3x)

Questions for you guys:
Is enclomiphene + HGH enough to keep things stable at 300–400 mg Primo?
Any better mild injectable or tweaks?
Missing on-cycle supports?

Bloodwork before/mid/post already planned.


Thanks for any input!

Enclomiphene+primo+hgh? This would be uncharted territory. I have never seen an example of someone who’s already making peak natural testosterone taking clomid, enclomiphene, tamoxifen, etc. I’m sure someone haaaas done it, but it hasn’t become something popular. Primo will lower your e2 most likely. But you won’t know how much until you do it. Hgh is always good, but some argue that a young exceptionally healthy man like you won’t get as much out of it as an older guy like myself. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t.

The way I see it, you’ll either get high E2 from increased test or you won’t. If you do, the first move is to use aromasin. I didn’t see e2 results on your bloodwork. Did I miss it?

It’s definitely going to be best to keep it simple. First cycle, use testosterone. Use enough to get gains but not an excessive amount. 300mg will be good. If you get sides early get bloods right away. Otherwise get bloods as soon as you reach saturation which would depend on the ester you choose. Keep the cycle reasonably short to help insure recovery. You’re exceptionally healthy. It really is unlikely that you wouldn’t recover from a smartly designed cycle. And it’s not likely either that you’re going to have wild, crazy, scary side effects. Yes these things could happen. And they do. But designing a cycle that hasn’t proven tried and true isn’t going to make the chances of side effects less. It will increase them.

And of course, you can just bide your time, and avoid all side effects completely.

If you get high e2 from 300mg of test you might get sensitive nipples, some body acne, maybe some emotional changes. This is all easily mitigated with aromasin. People here will be able to see your bloodwork and know exactly how much aromasin to take. I had this experience.

It’s good that you are researching and weighing your options. But if you’re going to do it, definitely keep it simple.

 

[LevButlerov]

Guys i´ve been researching and i think i´ve found a sweetspot atleast for the next upcoming months.
My natural test is already very high, so I don’t want to add exogenous testosterone as a base (extra estrogen + sides). What do yall think of using enclomiphene to keep my own LH/FSH and natural production high, preventing a big shutdown from other compounds. Adding HGH to counter the IGF-1 drop from enclomiphene and help with muscle preservation + extra fat loss.


Goal is a dry, lean recomp while keeping energy, libido and natural hormonal stability as high as possible without a traditional test base.


Cycle: 8–10 weeks on Primo+HGH.

Enclomiphene 6.25–12.5 mg/day
HGH 2–4 IU/day
Primobolan (Methenolone Enanthate) 300–400 mg/week (split 2x/3x)

Questions for you guys:
Is enclomiphene + HGH enough to keep things stable at 300–400 mg Primo?
Any better mild injectable or tweaks?
Missing on-cycle supports?

Bloodwork before/mid/post already planned.


Thanks for any input!

You can use enclomiphene but your use of primobolan is really a bad idea REALLY BAD no test base cycles will kill your natty test and you'll have super low e2 causing many side effects @GoncaloR01
a few things why haven't you posting training update? food updates? supplement updates?

For your cycle enclomiphene + hgh + fadogia test booster like hcgenerate but nothing else

 

[Mobster]

The rush is that i started this journey "not young" and my prime years are right now, i have the next 10-15 years to grind in this, if i wait 4-5 more years working out naturaly its just waisting time when i could make those gains way faster. If im gonna use atleast trt in my 40s or something like that, then what diference it makes if i start now?

You're making multiple assumptions and guesses.

Let's address the TRT at age 40. Vs you having, right now, naturally high levels.

You KNOW you want a forum that discusses PED use to give you a majority thumbs up and, cue shock, that hasn't happened.

I'm 61. I 'grinded' 360kg/792lbs for 8 reps on Hatfield Squats yesterday. I started age 15. Don't 'guess' what you MIGHT do vs what you WILL do.

Look at your kind joking posts re money and clothing while saying you're not rich. So get a job and an education. Have a back up and then SEE what your body wants to do. WHEN you're ready and with some sperm frozen and on ice then look at MAYBE going on cycle