Friend ended cycle early

[Lxkalel]

Hey guys A buddy of mine ended his test only cycle after three weeks. Long story short, his side effects were thatbof congestive heart failure so he stopping and will see cardiologist. Most likely the excessive water retention (at .5mg ed arimidex) caused the Edema and shortness of breath due to a 15 pound weight increase in 3 week. But he just wants to make sure there’s no underline issues.

Assuming the heart is not the issue and it was just way too much estrogen and water, after three weeks does he still need a full pct? And if assuming there were no heart issues would he be looking at standard time on = time off? He wasn’t thinking he really got shut down in three weeks and will be getting blood work after everything with the cardiologist.

 

[jp4355]

Inform your Friend, that you start to get Suppressed with the 1st Injection.
And usually Total Shutdown can occur in the 1st Week or 2 depending on Dose and Frequency.

And it sounds like his AI was Bunk.
So I would check on that.

No way he should have put on 15 Lbs in just 3 Weeks.
Unless he was on a Hamburger and Milk Shake Diet....................... JP
P.S.
High Estrogen will cause Edema (Bloating), High Blood Pressure, and this can Strain the Heart.


Post Edit:
Before I forget.
What was your Friends Stats before the Cycle ~ Age/Height/Weight/Body Fat percent.
Years of Training !

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Hey guys A buddy of mine ended his test only cycle after three weeks. Long story short, his side effects were that of congestive heart failure...'

If indeed he has suffered congestive heart failure, I seriously doubt that it was the result of exogenous testosterone, most especially after a mere three weeks.

...so he's stopping and will see a cardiologist.

Wonderful.

 

[Nitin]

How much test was he doing weekly?

 

[sisir012]

Jp already said ....

Sent from my SM-J701F using Tapatalk

 

[Eddie Haskell]

How much test was he doing weekly?

I was wondering about that, too. If it was, say, 1.500mgs per week, then perhaps he did suffer test'-induced congestive heart failure. I dunno.

 

[Lxkalel]

Ok so I gave him a call so I could give as much detail as possible. First his stats his 37. 5’7. 180lbs and 12% body fat. He has high estrogen and has been on prescription arimidex. (So AI being bunk wasn’t the issue)

He had the “symptoms” of congestive heart failure (edema, shortness of breathe when active, and hard to breathe laying in his back). Having the naturally high estrogen most likely caused rapid water retention and that snowballed the other symptoms. He thought it would be best to stop and just verify.

He was doing 500mg Test E. And Tbol 50 Mg ed. Do you think the arimidex dose needed to be higher due to his natural high estrogen? Maybe he should just stick to dry compounds? Maybe he just can’t do steroids?

 

[jp4355]

Let me get this straight.
He was already on Arimidex for High Estrogen, and he decided to do a Cycle.

NOT SMART !

You didn't say how much Arimidex he was taking.............................. JP
P.S.
Once he's feeling better, and has Bloodwork that shows No Abnormal Blood Values.
Tell him to switch over to Aromasin.

 

[Lxkalel]

He was taking .5mg twice a week. He thought if he bumped it up to .5 ed it would be enough.

Yeah aromasin would probably be better. Thank you for the help!

 

[Lxkalel]

So you think arimidex just won't be strong enough given his estrogen problem even at 1mg ed? I’ll definitely tell him to look into aromasin.

 

[jp4355]

So you think arimidex just won't be strong enough given his estrogen problem even at 1mg ed? I’ll definitely tell him to look into aromasin.

I think he wasn't taking enough, not if he was taking 0.5 Mg twice a week before any Steroids.
Sounds like he needed 1 Mg every day.

But Arimidex taken Long Term has 2 Big Problems.
Estrogen Rebound will happen if the dose isn't reduced over a couple of Weeks, especially with someone who was on it for Estrogen Control prior to any AAS.
The Second Problem, is even when taken Short Term, Cholesterol Values can be Dramatically Impacted.
It can Reduce your HDL (good cholesterol), while Increasing LDL & Triglycerides........................ JP
P.S.
Aromasin can't cause Estrogen Rebound, as it makes a Permanent Bond to the Aromatase Enzyme.
So only New Activity can occur.
And in Clinical Studies, it either had No Impact or Improved Cholesterol Values.

 

[Lxkalel]

Thank you for taking the time to write that insightful look into aromasin! I’ll pass this all along. Definitely sounds like that’s the direction he should go.

One last question. After pct would he just go right back to his regular AI dose or slowly taper back into it each week?

 

[muskate]

Thank you for taking the time to write that insightful look into aromasin! I’ll pass this all along. Definitely sounds like that’s the direction he should go.

One last question. After pct would he just go right back to his regular AI dose or slowly taper back into it each week?

AIs like aromasin and arimidex have pret short half lives so I would just return to his regular AI dosage. No need to slowly taper down.

Have your buddy read this article on aromasin for some more info -> https://www.evolutionary.org/aromasin-exemestane

 

[Mobster]

Or tell him not to use steroids.

 

[jp4355]

Thank you for taking the time to write that insightful look into aromasin! I’ll pass this all along. Definitely sounds like that’s the direction he should go.

One last question. After pct would he just go right back to his regular AI dose or slowly taper back into it each week?

You don't need to Taper off of Aromasin, it's a Suicidal Inhibitor.
And makes a Permanent Bond to the Aromatase Enzyme.

If he's just going back to his Regular Dose of Arimidex, from a Higher Dose.
He should be OK.

But if he's going off of Arimidex without substituting another AI.
Then Yes, he needs to Taper Down................................ JP

 

[stevesmi]

he doesn't NEED a pct, but he should do one or he will experience a hard landing. with his situation, have him use hcgenerate, no more drugs!

as for his situation, his stats were fine. i still don't understand how he gained 5 pounds a week. makes no sense. this is a classic example how steroids effect people different. BUT also why you should always run pre cycle blood work. had he ran bloods before i have a feeling red flags would have shown up that would have told him to stay away from steroids

 

[Lxkalel]

he doesn't NEED a pct, but he should do one or he will experience a hard landing. with his situation, have him use hcgenerate, no more drugs!

as for his situation, his stats were fine. i still don't understand how he gained 5 pounds a week. makes no sense. this is a classic example how steroids effect people different. BUT also why you should always run pre cycle blood work. had he ran bloods before i have a feeling red flags would have shown up that would have told him to stay away from steroids

He gets blood work regularly with the endocrinologist. His Testosterone and Estrogen levels have been fine for 2 years. He figured he was good to go. Looks like the arimidex dose should have just been much higher. I agree that is an insane amount of water in 3 weeks.

Do you think it would be worthwhile maybe just doing low dose 250mg test with Tbol? Since tbol doesn’t aromatize and keep the test low may help? I know it wouldn’t be a big mass gainer but it should still produce some nice slow keepablw gains. What are your thoughts?

 

[stevesmi]

He gets blood work regularly with the endocrinologist. His Testosterone and Estrogen levels have been fine for 2 years. He figured he was good to go. Looks like the arimidex dose should have just been much higher. I agree that is an insane amount of water in 3 weeks.

Do you think it would be worthwhile maybe just doing low dose 250mg test with Tbol? Since tbol doesn’t aromatize and keep the test low may help? I know it wouldn’t be a big mass gainer but it should still produce some nice slow keepablw gains. What are your thoughts?

so you are saying his bp was fine and then hopped on test and 3 weeks later he had a heart attack? no bro, he is full of shit. or his doctor is awful and he should sue his ass. i guarantee he had red flags. you don't just go from perfectly healthy to heart attack in 3 weeks

 

[Lxkalel]

so you are saying his bp was fine and then hopped on test and 3 weeks later he had a heart attack? no bro, he is full of shit. or his doctor is awful and he should sue his ass. i guarantee he had red flags. you don't just go from perfectly healthy to heart attack in 3 weeks

He didn’t have a heart attack. He had the symptoms of congestive heart failure. Edema, shortness of breath during activity, and shirtness of breath laying flat on his back. He stopped the cycle just as a precaution to make sure it was the estrogen and not his heart.

Now he knows it was just a huge spike in estrogen which caused the massive water retention which snowballed into the High BP, edema, shortness of breathe, ect.

 

[Masonic Bodybuilder]

He sounds like a good candidate for SARMs if he wants to use PEDs. They do not aromatize so there are no estrogen concerns.