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Lawyerguy1
Growing Brother
Ok, first post here and looking for some guidance. Sorry for the long newbie post but any advice is appreciated. I've read a lot on the topic, here and elsewhere, but there is a lot of conflicting advice on proper time off and PCT. My question is a bit different though, what is proper protocol for PCT and time off if you are ALREADY dealing with naturally low T and doing an ongoing non-replacement regimen for that? Currently, I'm taking 25mg clomid/day and 1mg anastrozole per week (split over 2 doses). This is something I've chosen to do on an ongoing basis whether I'm on cycle or off. What I struggle with then is this: for most people if you're doing SARM cycles, clomid/anastrozole is something you might consider but only as a mini PCT. How does my circumstance change things? I take clomid and anastrozole on an ongoing basis anyway. If I do a 10 to 12 week ostarine cycle, do I simply keep doing the existing clomid/anastrozole regimen as is? Do I up the dosages for a few weeks as sort of a mini PCT? If I'm doing SARM cycles and have naturally low T should I not do an ongoing clomiod/anastrozole regimen at all and try and do T replacement instead?
Here's a little more background on me. I'm 44, very experienced in the gym for many years and fairly knowledgeable about nutrition and recovery. I have never (knowingly) taken steroids or prohormones, but I have used a variety of supplements off and on over the years so who really knows, considering all the labeling problems we sometimes hear about. Back in my late 20's my (ex) wife and I went through infertility counseling/treatment, when I was tested my T levels came back at what I would consider low normal, but not anything that would result in a recommendation for replacement therapy. In the years since then I've maintained a mostly healthy lifestyle, didn't ever have problems with sex, was always able to put muscle on and keep it, etc. I put the testosterone question out of my mind for many years as there did not seem to be any problems.
About 3 years ago or so I started noticing some symptoms that seem to resemble falling T levels. More fatigue, harder to keep the muscle, moodiness, lower libido, etc. It felt like I had dropped from low normal T to simply low. Yes, I realize I was getting into my 40's but physically, I still looked and performed better than guys far younger than me. I started taking otc/gnc type supplements to try and increase T, but without bloodwork I have no idea if it had an effect and I couldn't really gauge anything simply from deciding if I felt any different. Then, about 18 months ago I decided to try SARMS as part of my gym routine. I've cycled Ostarine several times since then (cycles 8 to 12 weeks at 25mg/day, time off in between cycles anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks), I take ibutamoren on a daily/continuous basis as I understand it isnt actually a true SARM and does not result in suppression, and I've also cycled cardarine several times and I understand that isn't really a SARM either. When I decided to go the SARM cycle route I also stopped taking OTC/GNC type T boosters and I just proactively ordered clomid to use as a mini PCT after the Ostarine cycles. Still no bloodwork, though. Honestly, I was very, very impressed the Ostarine/Ibutamren/Cardarine regimen and the results. After my first cucyle I was also impressed with clomid, I was not getting bloodwork but I could definitely tell that my prior physical symptoms of naturally low T were greatly improved. I decided to use clomid on an ongoing basis to deal with the low T symptoms whether I was on cycle or off. It seemed effective. Eventually, I tried and phase off of clomid to see what would happen. I progressively lowered the dosage over a month long period and stopped taking it. This was this past March. Within a couple weeks, boom. Moody, fatigued, sex problems, I think I had estrogen rebound because my nipples starting itching like a motherfucker and it wasn't going away, etc. I wondered if my supplements were prohormones rather than what they wsaid they were, but I had gotten them from a very reputable source that is often recommended. It got really bad so I went in to the doctor and did a T panel. My total T levels were VERY low, but interestingly enough the bioavailable T was in the normal range. I didn't tell the doc about the SARMS or the clomid, etc, but he set a follow up appointment to take place in not quite 4 weeks for a complete blood and hormone panel. After that first visit I just proactively started taking clomid 25mg/day again and I also added in the 1mg/week anastrozole at that time. When I had my full hormone panel 3.5 weeks later, my total T had gotten into the normal range at almost 500, the bioavailable T was at the high end, estrogen and LH/FSH etc all seemed fine. At that time I told the doc about how I had used clomid in the past and how I proactively started it again right after the first T panel that was really low. He seemed surprised I'd done that but acknowledged he's done that for people in the past, but only as a precursor to phasing into T replacement at some point. I would expect that with continued clomid/anastrozole supplementation since then that my total T likely continued to climb since then and and estrogen would remain in check. I've also seen that there are many doctors that are OK with ongoing clomid/anastrozle instead of phasing into T replacement like my doctor suggested. I started another 10 week Ostarine/Cardarine cycle, completed it, and now I've been off cycle for 6 weeks. I have continued to do the daily clomid and weekly anastrozole. Frankly though, I'm again noticing issues with lower libido, etc.
So. . . . in a nutshell, what's my best bet going forward? Considering my naturally low T if I don't do a regimen, is 6 weeks off cycle enough time? I'd like to start another ostarine cycle. Should I be doing something for PCT beyond my normal clomid/anastrozole routine? I plan on getting more bloodwork done soon. Should I say screw the whole clomid/anastrozole thing and ask for T replacement instead and then follow normal SARM PCT protocol? And regardless, how much time is REALLY enough? I've seen a lot of people say Ostarine is minimally suppressive and so only 4 weeks, but my T can be low anyways. I've seen a lot of people say 6 to 8 weeks. Others that time off should be the same as time on. I've seen others that say that mini PCT should always be 4 weeks and then an additional 4 to 6 weeks off (but again. . . I've been taking clomid/anastrozole on an ongoing basis anyway. . .)
Thoughts? And thanks.
Here's a little more background on me. I'm 44, very experienced in the gym for many years and fairly knowledgeable about nutrition and recovery. I have never (knowingly) taken steroids or prohormones, but I have used a variety of supplements off and on over the years so who really knows, considering all the labeling problems we sometimes hear about. Back in my late 20's my (ex) wife and I went through infertility counseling/treatment, when I was tested my T levels came back at what I would consider low normal, but not anything that would result in a recommendation for replacement therapy. In the years since then I've maintained a mostly healthy lifestyle, didn't ever have problems with sex, was always able to put muscle on and keep it, etc. I put the testosterone question out of my mind for many years as there did not seem to be any problems.
About 3 years ago or so I started noticing some symptoms that seem to resemble falling T levels. More fatigue, harder to keep the muscle, moodiness, lower libido, etc. It felt like I had dropped from low normal T to simply low. Yes, I realize I was getting into my 40's but physically, I still looked and performed better than guys far younger than me. I started taking otc/gnc type supplements to try and increase T, but without bloodwork I have no idea if it had an effect and I couldn't really gauge anything simply from deciding if I felt any different. Then, about 18 months ago I decided to try SARMS as part of my gym routine. I've cycled Ostarine several times since then (cycles 8 to 12 weeks at 25mg/day, time off in between cycles anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks), I take ibutamoren on a daily/continuous basis as I understand it isnt actually a true SARM and does not result in suppression, and I've also cycled cardarine several times and I understand that isn't really a SARM either. When I decided to go the SARM cycle route I also stopped taking OTC/GNC type T boosters and I just proactively ordered clomid to use as a mini PCT after the Ostarine cycles. Still no bloodwork, though. Honestly, I was very, very impressed the Ostarine/Ibutamren/Cardarine regimen and the results. After my first cucyle I was also impressed with clomid, I was not getting bloodwork but I could definitely tell that my prior physical symptoms of naturally low T were greatly improved. I decided to use clomid on an ongoing basis to deal with the low T symptoms whether I was on cycle or off. It seemed effective. Eventually, I tried and phase off of clomid to see what would happen. I progressively lowered the dosage over a month long period and stopped taking it. This was this past March. Within a couple weeks, boom. Moody, fatigued, sex problems, I think I had estrogen rebound because my nipples starting itching like a motherfucker and it wasn't going away, etc. I wondered if my supplements were prohormones rather than what they wsaid they were, but I had gotten them from a very reputable source that is often recommended. It got really bad so I went in to the doctor and did a T panel. My total T levels were VERY low, but interestingly enough the bioavailable T was in the normal range. I didn't tell the doc about the SARMS or the clomid, etc, but he set a follow up appointment to take place in not quite 4 weeks for a complete blood and hormone panel. After that first visit I just proactively started taking clomid 25mg/day again and I also added in the 1mg/week anastrozole at that time. When I had my full hormone panel 3.5 weeks later, my total T had gotten into the normal range at almost 500, the bioavailable T was at the high end, estrogen and LH/FSH etc all seemed fine. At that time I told the doc about how I had used clomid in the past and how I proactively started it again right after the first T panel that was really low. He seemed surprised I'd done that but acknowledged he's done that for people in the past, but only as a precursor to phasing into T replacement at some point. I would expect that with continued clomid/anastrozole supplementation since then that my total T likely continued to climb since then and and estrogen would remain in check. I've also seen that there are many doctors that are OK with ongoing clomid/anastrozle instead of phasing into T replacement like my doctor suggested. I started another 10 week Ostarine/Cardarine cycle, completed it, and now I've been off cycle for 6 weeks. I have continued to do the daily clomid and weekly anastrozole. Frankly though, I'm again noticing issues with lower libido, etc.
So. . . . in a nutshell, what's my best bet going forward? Considering my naturally low T if I don't do a regimen, is 6 weeks off cycle enough time? I'd like to start another ostarine cycle. Should I be doing something for PCT beyond my normal clomid/anastrozole routine? I plan on getting more bloodwork done soon. Should I say screw the whole clomid/anastrozole thing and ask for T replacement instead and then follow normal SARM PCT protocol? And regardless, how much time is REALLY enough? I've seen a lot of people say Ostarine is minimally suppressive and so only 4 weeks, but my T can be low anyways. I've seen a lot of people say 6 to 8 weeks. Others that time off should be the same as time on. I've seen others that say that mini PCT should always be 4 weeks and then an additional 4 to 6 weeks off (but again. . . I've been taking clomid/anastrozole on an ongoing basis anyway. . .)
Thoughts? And thanks.
