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So I made a decision: I will use primobolan for a first cycle

Please clue me in on this? I have never heard of an allergy test for steroids.
I meant allergy tests for the active substance of a specific steroid or any drug. For example, an allergy tests for clomiphene can determine if I'm allergic to clomiphene.

As for the other ingredients of clomiphene besides the active substance, which is also called clomiphene like the drug's name, I don't have any allergies. I know what the substances are and I know I have been in contact with them many times over the years, and I never got any allergic reactions. But I have never been in contact with clomiphene itself, soni can't tell if I'm allergic to it.
 
Wait what primobolan pills ? Did u mean primobolan injections? While primo tabs do exist they are useless and won't do anything for u. Primo also has anti estrogen properties and can act like and AI and help keep estrogen down, u don't want to run AI to high alongside primo and low test because you can tank estrogen badly and that will cause alot of issues for u.
I'm planning to use oral primobolan combined with injectable testosterone. The goal of the injectable testosterone won't be anabolic, but to keep my testosterone levels within normal range, I prefer the testosterone level to be around 600 ng/dL.

Primobolan shuts down natural testosterone production without adding exogenous testosterone to the body, meaning I will be left in an extremely dangerous condition if I don't take synthetic testosterone to keep natural testosterone and aromatization in normal range; estrogen levels don't have to fall below normal range.

During the primobolan-only cycle, I'm planning a TRT dose of synthetic testosterone, not a PED dose.

And why won't primobolan tabs work as good as injectable primobolan? Wouldn't 400 mg primobolan in oral form have the same effects as 400 mg primobolan in an injectable form? If metabolism destroys some of it when taken in oral form, then taking 400 mg will have the effect of, perhaps, 350 mg, since 50 mg will be destroyed (neutralized) by metabolism?

Yes, I know injectable steroids are much more effective than oral, but I prefer orals for a first cycle. They have shorter half-life and will quickly disappear from my body. In case something go wrong, the only thing I will have to do is to stop taking primobolan, and the drug will leave my body in just a few hours.

Stop overthinking. You have no experience with gear use so listen to us fellas who have been using gear as well as coaching others for years.

If you want to start with a test and primo cycle. Run test and primo at a 1:1 ratio. A good first cycle of these would be 200 test e and 200 primo. It's that simple. 1:1 ratio with test and primo is always the best starting point. Out of the majority of guys I have coached, this ratio worked well and kept estrogen levels in a good spot. You aren't going to just instantly get gyno. Stop panicking about it.

You can adjust your doses from there based on estrogen levels via feel and then bloods.

If your estrogen is low, up the test slightly. And vice versa if estrogen is high.

No hcg. No clomid. Run clomid in your pct.

Thats it.
Nice, but how many ng/dL of testosterone will I get from 200 mg synthetic testosterone per week, as you proposed? If it will be more than 600 ng/dL, then I don't want it. 600 ng/dL is my natural level, and I know I'm not getting any gynecomastia at this level.

I may get gynecomastia at any level above 600 ng/dL, so I prefer to keep my T at 600 ng/dL or a little bit below. I think 80 or 100 to 125 mg a week (synthetic testosterone) will be enough.
 
I'm planning to use oral primobolan combined with injectable testosterone. The goal of the injectable testosterone won't be anabolic, but to keep my testosterone levels within normal range, I prefer the testosterone level to be around 600 ng/dL.

Primobolan shuts down natural testosterone production without adding exogenous testosterone to the body, meaning I will be left in an extremely dangerous condition if I don't take synthetic testosterone to keep natural testosterone and aromatization in normal range; estrogen levels don't have to fall below normal range.

During the primobolan-only cycle, I'm planning a TRT dose of synthetic testosterone, not a PED dose.

And why won't primobolan tabs work as good as injectable primobolan? Wouldn't 400 mg primobolan in oral form have the same effects as 400 mg primobolan in an injectable form? If metabolism destroys some of it when taken in oral form, then taking 400 mg will have the effect of, perhaps, 350 mg, since 50 mg will be destroyed (neutralized) by metabolism?

Yes, I know injectable steroids are much more effective than oral, but I prefer orals for a first cycle. They have shorter half-life and will quickly disappear from my body. In case something go wrong, the only thing I will have to do is to stop taking primobolan, and the drug will leave my body in just a few hours.


Nice, but how many ng/dL of testosterone will I get from 200 mg synthetic testosterone per week, as you proposed? If it will be more than 600 ng/dL, then I don't want it. 600 ng/dL is my natural level, and I know I'm not getting any gynecomastia at this level.

I may get gynecomastia at any level above 600 ng/dL, so I prefer to keep my T at 600 ng/dL or a little bit below. I think 80 or 100 to 125 mg a week (synthetic testosterone) will be enough.
No one knows what 200mgs would put you at. For some guys it will put them at 2000ng, for some it might put them at 800ng.

You also aren't going to get gyno just because your test levels go over 600ng/dl. Your natural test levels are transient. One hour of one day they might be at 600. The next day they could be at 700. Or 500. They are always changing.

Also high estrogen doesn't just automatically mean gyno. And test over 600ng likely wont equal gyno for you. Plenty of guys can run anywhere from 200 to 500mg or more of test per week without any AI or Serm.

Gyno doesnt happen overnight. It takes time to develop. This is why guys keep a serm and AI on hand during cycles. Especially first cycles, in which i would generally advise the use of test only. Once you feel any sort of nipple pain or sensitivity you can take a serm to prevent any growth. Then control estrogen with an AI.

Also primo is going to lower your estrogen. So keeping your test levels at 600ng and running primo is highly likely to crash your estrogen. You will feel like absolute shit and won't gain anything on your cycle. It will also cause damage to your health as estrogen is cardio and neuroprotective.

Also oral primo is an extremely weak anabolic. I would only ever use it for females I coach.

Running oral primo with a small amount of test will be a pointless cycle. You won't gain much, it will be extremely underwhelming and a waste of your time and money.

But if you feel like wasting your time and money go for it.
 
Oral primo is not 17aa. So it has poor absorption
I see no reason for a male to use it. Get injectable which is far superior

the guys above are correct
 
Im so lost as to why ANYONE is continually still responding to this.. someone that has never used anything, in their early 20's, posting like a complete and utter jekyll and hyde bipolar patient, that thinks they know more than everyone who has been doing this decades and longer... i think, honestly, the joke is on everyone that continues to respond to ANY of this! SMFH, seriously, people just all should stop responding
 
Correct.

But see, thing is, you still failed to list at least 1 serious reason why I shouldn't use steroids before the age of 25 and before the end of full HPTA development.

Again, if sterility and TRT for life, which are extremely unlikely to happen, is the scariest you can come with, I'm not afraid. These 2 health issues aren't even dangerous.

At some point, i will have to go on TRT anyway. What is the difference between going on TRT at age of 25 and going on TRT at age 45? In both cases, you are going on TRT.

I probably mistyped my age. Currently, I'm 23 years old and will be 24 years old less than 6 months ago. That's my real age.
I didn't fail. I chose not to.

And you must have mis-typed your age twice. And 'ago' is wrong too (poss a language issue)
 
This thread isn't about gynecomastia. In my first post, I just expressed my opinion about other people claiming that primobolan can cause gynecomastia.

F*ck everything, I'm going through.

I overcame many of my fears related to black market steroids.
I have no doubt that you will, just as I have no doubt that you will have many complications that you are not even thinking about..

but, don't misunderstand me, I don't wish you anything bad, in fact I say you "good luck"
(considering your unpreparedness, only luck can help you)
 
I have no doubt that you will, just as I have no doubt that you will have many complications that you are not even thinking about..

but, don't misunderstand me, I don't wish you anything bad, in fact I say you "good luck"
(considering your unpreparedness, only luck can help you)
This sounds like a demoralization attempt.

I asked @Mobster to tell me why he doesn't want me to use steroids. He said multiple times that he is against steroid use before the age of 25 and the end of the HPTA development.

When he talks about HPTA and age of 25, he most likely refers to endocrine system development and the fact that if that system is disrupted, I may need a TRT for life and remain sterile. In response, I said that sterility and TRT for life are trade offs I'm willing to do.

TRT for life and sterility aren't enough to scare me. These aren't serious side effect, in my perspective.

So are sterility and TRT for life the complications you are talking about? If yes, know I'm not afraid of these "complications".

Anyway, feel free to list the complications you think I haven't thought about. I will be happy to see them and think about the risks.
I didn't fail. I chose not to.

And you must have mis-typed your age twice. And 'ago' is wrong too (poss a language issue)
Why did you chose not to? If you really wanted to educate me, you would have told me what the health issues are.

So, don't explain me anything in details, just list the names of the health issues you think I will get if I use steroids before the age of 25.

No one knows what 200mgs would put you at. For some guys it will put them at 2000ng, for some it might put them at 800ng.

You also aren't going to get gyno just because your test levels go over 600ng/dl. Your natural test levels are transient. One hour of one day they might be at 600. The next day they could be at 700. Or 500. They are always changing.

Also high estrogen doesn't just automatically mean gyno. And test over 600ng likely wont equal gyno for you. Plenty of guys can run anywhere from 200 to 500mg or more of test per week without any AI or Serm.

Gyno doesnt happen overnight. It takes time to develop. This is why guys keep a serm and AI on hand during cycles. Especially first cycles, in which i would generally advise the use of test only. Once you feel any sort of nipple pain or sensitivity you can take a serm to prevent any growth. Then control estrogen with an AI.
I will start with a minimal TRT dose (80-100 ng a week), and at the end of the first week, I will test my testosterone level to see the ng/dL amount. That's how I will now if the minimal dose works the way I want it to work.

Yes, I will have tamoxifen just in case. I steroids cycle with primobolan and a TRT dose is very unlikely to cause gynecomastia.
Also primo is going to lower your estrogen. So keeping your test levels at 600ng and running primo is highly likely to crash your estrogen. You will feel like absolute shit and won't gain anything on your cycle. It will also cause damage to your health as estrogen is cardio and neuroprotective.
Primobolan lowers estrogen because it lowers natural testosterone production, and aromatization can't happen without testosterone. That's why I will use testosterone during the cycle. If I take primobolan and it shuts down my natural T production, the TRT dose is what will keep my testosterone levels within normal range so aromatization can continue and estrogen and e2 are kept within normal range, ok? That's how it works, ok?
 
This sounds like a demoralization attempt.

I asked @Mobster to tell me why he doesn't want me to use steroids. He said multiple times that he is against steroid use before the age of 25 and the end of the HPTA development.

When he talks about HPTA and age of 25, he most likely refers to endocrine system development and the fact that if that system is disrupted, I may need a TRT for life and remain sterile. In response, I said that sterility and TRT for life are trade offs I'm willing to do.

TRT for life and sterility aren't enough to scare me. These aren't serious side effect, in my perspective.

So are sterility and TRT for life the complications you are talking about? If yes, know I'm not afraid of these "complications".

Anyway, feel free to list the complications you think I haven't thought about. I will be happy to see them and think about the risks.

Why did you chose not to? If you really wanted to educate me, you would have told me what the health issues are.

So, don't explain me anything in details, just list the names of the health issues you think I will get if I use steroids before the age of 25.


I will start with a minimal TRT dose (80-100 ng a week), and at the end of the first week, I will test my testosterone level to see the ng/dL amount. That's how I will now if the minimal dose works the way I want it to work.

Yes, I will have tamoxifen just in case. I steroids cycle with primobolan and a TRT dose is very unlikely to cause gynecomastia.

Primobolan lowers estrogen because it lowers natural testosterone production, and aromatization can't happen without testosterone. That's why I will use testosterone during the cycle. If I take primobolan and it shuts down my natural T production, the TRT dose is what will keep my testosterone levels within normal range so aromatization can continue and estrogen and e2 are kept within normal range, ok? That's how it works, ok?
No. If only I hadn't spent hours in replies to you to date...
 
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Thats not how it works, primo is much stronger than you think it is and 100mg of testosterone won't be enough to keep estrogen in a healthy range, regardless of that fact you will still be shutting down natural testosterone function, since you will be introducing outside sources of testosterone, the body will recognize that source and tell the testies halt production of testosterone and stop producing it so either way u will encounter shutdown and suppression of natural testosterone.

Plenty of people on gear still have kids not every one will become sterile. The primobolan will not do what you think it will since you for some reason are dead set on tablets instead of injections, no one uses tablets because simply they do not work at all.

Primo as stated above needs 1:1 or 2:1 ratio those pills won't get you there, you continue with over complication, I don't think you should run anything at all ot just won't work out or be good for you, after reading everything in this post and the replies.
 
No. If only I hadn't spent hours in replies to you to date...
It's "No." because there aren't reasons. You can't show me reasons that don't exist.

I'm almost 25 years old. What is the difference between starting steroids at 24 or 25? I will be 24 years old very soon.
Thats not how it works, primo is much stronger than you think it is and 100mg of testosterone won't be enough to keep estrogen in a healthy range, regardless of that fact you will still be shutting down natural testosterone function, since you will be introducing outside sources of testosterone, the body will recognize that source and tell the testies halt production of testosterone and stop producing it so either way u will encounter shutdown and suppression of natural testosterone.

Plenty of people on gear still have kids not every one will become sterile. The primobolan will not do what you think it will since you for some reason are dead set on tablets instead of injections, no one uses tablets because simply they do not work at all.

Primo as stated above needs 1:1 or 2:1 ratio those pills won't get you there, you continue with over complication, I don't think you should run anything at all ot just won't work out or be good for you, after reading everything in this post and the replies.
Why wouldn't 100 mg of testosterone a week be able to keep my testosterone and estrogen levels within normal range? 100 mg of testosterone is generally the recommended TRT dose, so it should be able to keep my levels within normal range?

As far as I know, primobolan can't neutralize exogenous testosterone. Primobolan will only shut down my natural T, but if 100 mg of synthetic T equal 600 ng/dL of testosterone, then my testosterone should be in this range, even if I use primobolan. Correct?
 
It's "No." because there aren't reasons. You can't show me reasons that don't exist.

I'm almost 25 years old. What is the difference between starting steroids at 24 or 25? I will be 24 years old very soon.

Why wouldn't 100 mg of testosterone a week be able to keep my testosterone and estrogen levels within normal range? 100 mg of testosterone is generally the recommended TRT dose, so it should be able to keep my levels within normal range?

As far as I know, primobolan can't neutralize exogenous testosterone. Primobolan will only shut down my natural T, but if 100 mg of synthetic T equal 600 ng/dL of testosterone, then my testosterone should be in this range, even if I use primobolan. Correct?
Primobolan will try to bind to the same receptor as testosterone and fight to occupying said receptor, thus causing much less conversion of estrogen as primo has anti estrogen properties, if u run the test super low for example primo being a dry compound and having zero estrogen conversion and having anti estrogen properties will best out test and occupy said receptor which then could cause your estrogen to become to low, it's a fine balance when u run these compounds. Alot of this will depend on the test dose and primo dose.

I am telling you if you use the pills for primo u won't get those effects and If u convert estrogen easily then u will see it happen because primo tablets don't work man it really is wasting money and time , you need to go with injectable primo here to see any benefit you are looking for.

Run it 1:1 or 2:1 it is how it should be done for optimal results like in my case I did 225mg of test and 400 of primo a week for 12 weeks no sides at all perfect cycle hassle free. Some guys need to run test higher some need to run primo higher or both compounds equal dosed it is all trial and error to figure it out.
 
Primobolan will try to bind to the same receptor as testosterone and fight to occupying said receptor, thus causing much less conversion of estrogen as primo has anti estrogen properties, if u run the test super low for example primo being a dry compound and having zero estrogen conversion and having anti estrogen properties will best out test and occupy said receptor which then could cause your estrogen to become to low, it's a fine balance when u run these compounds. Alot of this will depend on the test dose and primo dose.
Wow, I didn't know this. Let's see if I understood it correctly. If I run primobolan, and a TRT dose of 100 mg a week is supposed to give me 600 ng/dL testosterone, it will actually give me 300 ng/dL, which is low, meaning I need about 200 mg a week? Correct?

The above example is an oversimplification, but you got the point.

I am telling you if you use the pills for primo u won't get those effects and If u convert estrogen easily then u will see it happen because primo tablets don't work man it really is wasting money and time , you need to go with injectable primo here to see any benefit you are looking for.
What will I see happening if I convert esteogen easily?

Yes, I know orals are less potent than injectables, but I have my own reason to do orals as a first cycle. I don't fully trust underground labs, so I won't be injecting anything in high doses. Orals have shorter half-life and are easy to manage if something go wrong. I know what I'm talking about.

Run it 1:1 or 2:1 it is how it should be done for optimal results like in my case I did 225mg of test and 400 of primo a week for 12 weeks no sides at all perfect cycle hassle free. Some guys need to run test higher some need to run primo higher or both compounds equal dosed it is all trial and error to figure it out.
Don't worry for my first cycle. My first cycle will be more of a test than an actual cycle. I have already found 2 sources, now I want to test their products to see if they work. If it turns out the products work as described and marketed, my next cycle will be more complex and based on injectable steroids only, most likely.

I will buy primobolan from RoidTeam and the testosterone, clomiphene and tamoxifen will be bought from eu-domestic.to, which is the EU shop of Domestic-Supply.
 
It's no because I've posted reams of rep[lies for you. You fully understand why. You've literally spelled out the risks yourself and say you're ok with it. Yet you want me to then do so too.

You're getting super close to being insulting and or demanding. I owe you NOTHING. Do you want me to go back to wishing you a nice day? If I reply I do so as a kindness
 
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It's no because I've posted reams of rep[lies for you. You fully understand why. You've literally spelled out the risks yourself and say you're ok with it. Yet you want me to then do so too.

You're getting super close to being insulting and or demanding. I owe you NOTHING. Do you want me to go back to wishing you a nice day? If I reply I do so as a kindness
So you mean sterility and TRT for life? That's the worse that can happen? Yeah, I'm ok with these things. I already said these aren't scary enough to make me give up.

If you think there are more issues than sterility and TRT for life, feel free to list them.

And as I already said, I will go on TRT anyway at some point in my life. There is no difference between going on TRT at my 20s, my 30s or my 40s.

When you talked about health issues due to steroids before the age of 25, I though you mean something worse that sterility and TRT for life.

Yes, you don't owe me nothing, but this doesn't mean you need to make intentionally veiled statements in order to make it looks like I'm dumb, don't understand you, and don't know what I'm doing. :)

So no, I'm not afraid of the possibility of TRT for life and sterility.
 
People like you used to rock up at the academy I lived in, in China. Always on about some lofty goal and how they had come to stay until they achieved it. They’d be gone in less than a month.

You remind me of those guys, you aren’t going to train and if you try, you will give up and have a million excuses as to why.

Prove me wrong, start training.
 
What are your expectations for using steroids? I feel like you think they are going to be more than what they are. I mean, they might be 5% of your results in the end. Diet and training are the other 95%. Steroids just give you that little bit extra boost that you can't get to naturally.
 
People like you used to rock up at the academy I lived in, in China. Always on about some lofty goal and how they had come to stay until they achieved it. They’d be gone in less than a month.

You remind me of those guys, you aren’t going to train and if you try, you will give up and have a million excuses as to why.

Prove me wrong, start training.
I'm determined. I'm not like the people you encountered. I explained multiple times what my goal is.
What are your expectations for using steroids? I feel like you think they are going to be more than what they are. I mean, they might be 5% of your results in the end. Diet and training are the other 95%. Steroids just give you that little bit extra boost that you can't get to naturally.
My expectations are realistic. Yes, I know about the 5% and the 95% thing.
 
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