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Honest Cycle Advice

MrPillowPantz

MrPillowPantz

V.I.P.
EVO Logger
Im a 34 y/o male. 6 ft tall. currently 249lbs. 21% Body fat. I started at 315lbs @ 36% BF. I found some motivation back in Dec of '22 and built a home gym and started going to town on working out. After experimenting with some SARMs, my buddy quickly got me on Test. That lead into my first cycle in Jan. I was really reckless now looking back. I cycled Test and Tren for 8 weeks. Then started Clenbuterol after. After about month I started on a huge ( to me) cycle:

750 Test Sus/week ( 15 weeks)
600 Tren A/ week ( 15 weeks)
400 Primo/week ( 15 weeks)
100 mg oral Winny (60 days)
120mcg Clen oral (2 weeks on weeks off)

I went to 23% BF and had MASSIVE gains. I got off since I hurt my elbow. Thats been 2 months ago. Elbow is healed up and Im lifting again heavy. Still satying around 21% BF and not as lean as on cycle but looking good. Im wanting to get back on but I have some questions. I had a shitty PCT getting off. I took Nova ( 3 weeks) and Clomid ( 3 weeks) HCGenerate from N2G as well. I didnt know what I was doing and kinda winged it.

My question is this. I feel like that cycle I was on, worked really well for me. Alot of pinning and orals but I felt great and my blood work came back fine mid cycle for all my organs. I want to start the same cycle in Nov. My diet is on point and I track all my macros easily.

What do you think of this cycle, what would you change, whats the best PCT for this? Positive advice is greatly appreciated.
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I’d drop the Winstrol, change the tren to E from A, and lower it to about 100 mg/wk. Then if you feel you need more total load, increase test or primo. In studies it seems that most of the magic of tren, which is due to its immense anti-catabolic properties, maxes out at about 100 mg/wk, and then after that it’s just extra side effects.

I’m glad your bloods looked good, but being on that much gear, and especially that much tren and winny, is a fast ride to a shortened life.

ETA: that’s also a lot of fucking clen. Think about using half as much with a little yohimbine and caffeine in order to get more out of less overall stress.
 
LittleTimeTrouble said:
I’d drop the Winstrol, change the tren to E from A, and lower it to about 100 mg/wk. Then if you feel you need more total load, increase test or primo. In studies it seems that most of the magic of tren, which is due to its immense anti-catabolic properties, maxes out at about 100 mg/wk, and then after that it’s just extra side effects.

I’m glad your bloods looked good, but being on that much gear, and especially that much tren and winny, is a fast ride to a shortened life.

ETA: that’s also a lot of fucking clen. Think about using half as much with a little yohimbine and caffeine in order to get more out of less overall stress.
Click to expand...
Last time I took Tren E, I had a bad reaction to it. Maybe a bad batch. The Clen, I went up till I couldnt handle the sides anymore and stayed there. @140 I was shaking so bad I couldnt write.

I will deff look at this though. Im 2 months out from starting rn. Trying to get a good feedback! Thank you for the help!
 
If you handle A better than E, stick with A. I was just thinking of it from matching ester lengths to the test and primo. It’s not really important, though. Just remember, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. You don’t get that much more from increasing dosages above what you currently require to get results. Save the high dosages for when you can’t make big gains on lower ones.
 
MrPillowPantz said:
Im a 34 y/o male. 6 ft tall. currently 249lbs. 21% Body fat. I started at 315lbs @ 36% BF. I found some motivation back in Dec of '22 and built a home gym and started going to town on working out. After experimenting with some SARMs, my buddy quickly got me on Test. That lead into my first cycle in Jan. I was really reckless now looking back. I cycled Test and Tren for 8 weeks. Then started Clenbuterol after. After about month I started on a huge ( to me) cycle:

750 Test Sus/week ( 15 weeks)
600 Tren A/ week ( 15 weeks)
400 Primo/week ( 15 weeks)
100 mg oral Winny (60 days)
120mcg Clen oral (2 weeks on weeks off)

I went to 23% BF and had MASSIVE gains. I got off since I hurt my elbow. Thats been 2 months ago. Elbow is healed up and Im lifting again heavy. Still satying around 21% BF and not as lean as on cycle but looking good. Im wanting to get back on but I have some questions. I had a shitty PCT getting off. I took Nova ( 3 weeks) and Clomid ( 3 weeks) HCGenerate from N2G as well. I didnt know what I was doing and kinda winged it.

My question is this. I feel like that cycle I was on, worked really well for me. Alot of pinning and orals but I felt great and my blood work came back fine mid cycle for all my organs. I want to start the same cycle in Nov. My diet is on point and I track all my macros easily.

What do you think of this cycle, what would you change, whats the best PCT for this? Positive advice is greatly appreciated. View attachment 15622View attachment 15623View attachment 15624
Click to expand...
@MrPillowPantz welcome to the evolutionary.org family! we are happy to have you here. Your transformation is amazing and shows real progress.

Though your cycle needs a bit of work and we need to know more about you as you prep for the cycle, later in my post ~~

Let's change up your cycle, with androgens and steroids in general, there is a peak point where, if your muscle size is not huge, you won't get the added benefit, example 500mgs of testosterone will give you pretty much the same results as 750mgs at your size and experience (same for trenbolone etc). Now, if you were a professional bodybuilder it would be a different story.

Also, primobolan can't be felt with trenbolone in the cycle, so if you want to keep it as a mild anti-estrogen thats fine but wont do much more.
lastly, clenbuterol can cause heart damage if you go above 100mcg, so stay below 60mcg.

Your current suggested cycle:
750 Test Sus/week ( 15 weeks)
600 Tren A/ week ( 15 weeks)
400 Primo/week ( 15 weeks)
100 mg oral Winny (60 days)
120mcg Clen oral (2 weeks on weeks off)
Click to expand...
My redo;
Week 1-16
-main cycle
500mgs testosterone enanthate/week
400mgs trenbolone acetate/week
200mgs primobolan/week
50mgs winstrol/day (week 1-8)
60mcg clenbuterol/day (2 days on, 2 days off, NOT weeks)
-ancillaries
7caps n2guard/day (organ liver support)
10mgs aromasin/day (anti estrogen Ai)
20mgs cardarine gw/day (anti trenbolone sides)
0.25mgs dostinex/week (wed dose, anti prolactin tren sides)

PCT would be 8 weeks
week 1-2 hcg 500 ius ed then drop
aromasin 5mgs eod then drop
week 1-8
nolvadex 60/60/40/40/20/10/10/10
clomid 50/25/25/25/12.5
hcgenerate 5 caps ed
n2guard 3 caps ed

@MrPillowPantz while the cycle above is based on your last cycle it's NOT a factual cycle since we know next to nothing about you, your diet training cardio supplements etc. before you even start the cycle you need to share your LOG with us.

To really guide you we need more info, we need you to share your diet, training, cardio, sleep, supplements etc log with us, full log journal so our guidance is based on facts you provide.

If you want us to really guide you, and we have 100s of years of experience between us, you need to post a LOG Journal with your stats (weight,height,age, years training, cycle history) diet, training, cardio, supplement, sleep details. If you don't log what you eat or train now, open NOTES on phone and start recording it there and paste here. Very easy.

Please post a Log Journal asap for us

Please click the anabolic forum
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/forums/anabolic-steroids-and-peds.2/
top RIGHT, you see: +POST THREAD
click that

in Title: write your cycle name, like> My _____ Cycle Log
___ = the name of your log
example: My testosterone trenbolone winstrol cycle Log
in body: write your planned cycle or cycle you doing now, your diet, training and we will help you along on your cycle

here are examples of LOG Journals
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-2023-2024-bulk-log.89292/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/princedaddy-2023-log-here-we-go-again.87659/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-cycle-training-log.86383/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/dozers-journey-to-the-stage-and-cycle.84184/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/roidrage69-log.90127
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-time-tren-log.87653/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/25homes-revenge-transformation-log-2023.88570/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...n-season-sponsored-by-nordic-fusion-log.89817
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-anavar-rad140-cardarine-cycle-log.86174/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/contest-peak-cycle-this-year.85007/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/new-cycle.84662/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/summer-bulking-cycle.85543/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/lefr34ks-training-log.85141/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/pigsys-training-log.83248/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/echos-hgh-log-and-cycle.85429/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-cycle-log.85538/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-contest-prep-log.87619/

P.S. are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
 
honest is we would be guessing what to tell you without seeing your LOG
 
your transformation is amazing and respected
I've trained guy like you and got same results with less gear
but lets talk reality, reality is we need your LOG journal to guide you so start it up please
 
LOG APPROVED - PLEASE POST A LOG

This thread/post was reviewed by our Medical Review board.

This thread/post/message was also fact checked by Steven Darwin, MD and our medical review board.

Full editorial process was followed, and please read our medical disclaimer, check our editorial process.
 
you're a big man and cycle is HUGE
please please start a log journal first
 
push up a log for us first Please
 
i've done bigger cycles but i'm a pro you can do better imo but first
LOG LOG LOG LOG NOW
 
LevButlerov said:
@MrPillowPantz welcome to the evolutionary.org family! we are happy to have you here. Your transformation is amazing and shows real progress.

Though your cycle needs a bit of work and we need to know more about you as you prep for the cycle, later in my post ~~

Let's change up your cycle, with androgens and steroids in general, there is a peak point where, if your muscle size is not huge, you won't get the added benefit, example 500mgs of testosterone will give you pretty much the same results as 750mgs at your size and experience (same for trenbolone etc). Now, if you were a professional bodybuilder it would be a different story.

Also, primobolan can't be felt with trenbolone in the cycle, so if you want to keep it as a mild anti-estrogen thats fine but wont do much more.
lastly, clenbuterol can cause heart damage if you go above 100mcg, so stay below 60mcg.

Your current suggested cycle:

My redo;
Week 1-16
-main cycle
500mgs testosterone enanthate/week
400mgs trenbolone acetate/week
200mgs primobolan/week
50mgs winstrol/day (week 1-8)
60mcg clenbuterol/day (2 days on, 2 days off, NOT weeks)
-ancillaries
7caps n2guard/day (organ liver support)
10mgs aromasin/day (anti estrogen Ai)
20mgs cardarine gw/day (anti trenbolone sides)
0.25mgs dostinex/week (wed dose, anti prolactin tren sides)

PCT would be 8 weeks
week 1-2 hcg 500 ius ed then drop
aromasin 5mgs eod then drop
week 1-8
nolvadex 60/60/40/40/20/10/10/10
clomid 50/25/25/25/12.5
hcgenerate 5 caps ed
n2guard 3 caps ed

@MrPillowPantz while the cycle above is based on your last cycle it's NOT a factual cycle since we know next to nothing about you, your diet training cardio supplements etc. before you even start the cycle you need to share your LOG with us.

To really guide you we need more info, we need you to share your diet, training, cardio, sleep, supplements etc log with us, full log journal so our guidance is based on facts you provide.

If you want us to really guide you, and we have 100s of years of experience between us, you need to post a LOG Journal with your stats (weight,height,age, years training, cycle history) diet, training, cardio, supplement, sleep details. If you don't log what you eat or train now, open NOTES on phone and start recording it there and paste here. Very easy.

Please post a Log Journal asap for us

Please click the anabolic forum
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/forums/anabolic-steroids-and-peds.2/
top RIGHT, you see: +POST THREAD
click that

in Title: write your cycle name, like> My _____ Cycle Log
___ = the name of your log
example: My testosterone trenbolone winstrol cycle Log
in body: write your planned cycle or cycle you doing now, your diet, training and we will help you along on your cycle

here are examples of LOG Journals
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-2023-2024-bulk-log.89292/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/princedaddy-2023-log-here-we-go-again.87659/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-cycle-training-log.86383/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/dozers-journey-to-the-stage-and-cycle.84184/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/roidrage69-log.90127
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/first-time-tren-log.87653/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/25homes-revenge-transformation-log-2023.88570/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums...n-season-sponsored-by-nordic-fusion-log.89817
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-anavar-rad140-cardarine-cycle-log.86174/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/contest-peak-cycle-this-year.85007/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/new-cycle.84662/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/summer-bulking-cycle.85543/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/lefr34ks-training-log.85141/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/pigsys-training-log.83248/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/echos-hgh-log-and-cycle.85429/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/my-cycle-log.85538/
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/threads/s-gentz-contest-prep-log.87619/

P.S. are you listening to our podcast? if not, you should:
https://www.evolutionary.org/podcasts/
Click to expand...
Im going to start right now! Thank you for the help! Thank you everybody for this. I was 100% expecting to get absolutely roasted today and this really builds me up. Everyone that replied!
 
Good luck with everyone.. I definitely cannot help.. its just all wrong from a health standpoint both short and long term... while it is absolutely awesome that you have taken control and have yourself moving in the right direction with your weight, you are actually going backwards on overall health for a multitude of reasons...

the doses are so far past excessive its insane..

your body fat, even at this point, is far too high to use steroids and puts you at such a greater risk of issues later

using clen is going to backfire in a major way.. not only is it likely going to cause short and long term heart problems but it also often leaves people gaining back weight it helped them lose being you cannot run it long term..

i really wish you nothing but the best but this is just going to end up being a huge health mess for you and anyone encouraging you to use in the condition you are in on top of the doses should be ashamed
 
I would really listen to Dylan's advice as he is really spot on. These are dangerously high doses coupled with a high body fat and you are not going to have anything good from it. You may seem and feel okay right now but you are not realizing the longer term ramifications from what you are doing
 
waayyyyy tooo much tren bro dont do it
 
Great job with your progress so far! Honestly, I would just focus on cutting and not running steroids. You can use some Cardarine but really focus on diet to get lean. You will be amazed at how much bigger you will look even though you will obviously lose weight (including some muscle). Check out sarms.forsale and Umbrella Labs if you decide to run the Cardarine. 20mg per day for 12-16 weeks is what I recommend. No need for PCT at all either.
 
Topps_Baseball88 said:
I'm confused at the body fat % 21% at 249lbs ? I'm 15 % at 217lbs and we are right around the same height also gear is way high man try and decrease it for health
Click to expand...
Body fat percentage is nearly impossible to estimate. I’d guess people are often off by 10% or more estimating their own. Compounding the problem, finding out what it really is is expensive, and not all that readily available. I’ve given up on even trying to guess mine, rather preferring to focus on whether I like what I see, and whether my health markers remain good.

FFMI is a good metric, though. The difference between the two numbers you mention is huge. 249/21% needs to have about 20 lbs more lean mass than 215/15%. That is a metric fuck ton of extra muscle, especially considering that somebody at 215 15% is carrying a substantial amount of muscle to begin with.
 
dylangemelli said:
Good luck with everyone.. I definitely cannot help.. its just all wrong from a health standpoint both short and long term... while it is absolutely awesome that you have taken control and have yourself moving in the right direction with your weight, you are actually going backwards on overall health for a multitude of reasons...

the doses are so far past excessive its insane..

your body fat, even at this point, is far too high to use steroids and puts you at such a greater risk of issues later

using clen is going to backfire in a major way.. not only is it likely going to cause short and long term heart problems but it also often leaves people gaining back weight it helped them lose being you cannot run it long term..

i really wish you nothing but the best but this is just going to end up being a huge health mess for you and anyone encouraging you to use in the condition you are in on top of the doses should be ashamed
Click to expand...
If you were my coach, At this point where I am right now, What would you have me do? Im getting alot of feedback from friends to bulk then cut. I feel like I want to keep cutting to get down to 12-15% for a health point, and how would you do it? My diet is clean and I count macros daily. Im eating my maintenance off my BMR calculator.
 
LittleTimeTrouble said:
Body fat percentage is nearly impossible to estimate. I’d guess people are often off by 10% or more estimating their own. Compounding the problem, finding out what it really is is expensive, and not all that readily available. I’ve given up on even trying to guess mine, rather preferring to focus on whether I like what I see, and whether my health markers remain good.

FFMI is a good metric, though. The difference between the two numbers you mention is huge. 249/21% needs to have about 20 lbs more lean mass than 215/15%. That is a metric fuck ton of extra muscle, especially considering that somebody at 215 15% is carrying a substantial amount of muscle to begin with.
Click to expand...
There is a local supplement shop that has a scale that "scans" my body for it. Thats what Im basing my numbers off of. I cant tell you if its 100%
 
MrPillowPantz said:
If you were my coach, At this point where I am right now, What would you have me do? Im getting alot of feedback from friends to bulk then cut. I feel like I want to keep cutting to get down to 12-15% for a health point, and how would you do it? My diet is clean and I count macros daily. Im eating my maintenance off my BMR calculator.
Click to expand...
anyone telling you to bulk, with an already excessive body fat, is NO FRIEND to you at all.. thats HORRIFIC advice to say the least...

obviously it continues with busting your ass in the gym, cardio 5 days a week, 45 minutes per day.. mix of steady state and HIIT and then continuously working on and improving your diet...

i would look at a sarms cutting stack at this point which will help you lose the body fat at a more rapid rate... you definitely want to get to the 12-15 range as its a far far more healthy range and thats an acceptable range to move on to anabolics if you still feel the need to do so...

here is a strong sarms cutting cycle...


for the best quality sarms visit either https://umbrellalabs.is or https://sarms.forsale

1-12 GW-501516 (CARDARINE) 20 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 Rad-140 (TESTOLONE) 20 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 Sr9009 (STENABOLIC) 30 mg day... 10 mg doses 4-5 hours apart
1-12 S4 (ANDARINE) 50 mg day... split doses... 25 mg in the a.m. and 25 mg 4-6 hours later
1-12 n2guard

Mini pct 13-16

Clomid 50/25/25/25 OR Nolva 40/20/20/20
Gw-501516 20 mg day
 
dylangemelli said:
anyone telling you to bulk, with an already excessive body fat, is NO FRIEND to you at all.. thats HORRIFIC advice to say the least...

obviously it continues with busting your ass in the gym, cardio 5 days a week, 45 minutes per day.. mix of steady state and HIIT and then continuously working on and improving your diet...

i would look at a sarms cutting stack at this point which will help you lose the body fat at a more rapid rate... you definitely want to get to the 12-15 range as its a far far more healthy range and thats an acceptable range to move on to anabolics if you still feel the need to do so...

here is a strong sarms cutting cycle...


for the best quality sarms visit either https://umbrellalabs.is or https://sarms.forsale

1-12 GW-501516 (CARDARINE) 20 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 Rad-140 (TESTOLONE) 20 mg day dosed once a day in the a.m.
1-12 Sr9009 (STENABOLIC) 30 mg day... 10 mg doses 4-5 hours apart
1-12 S4 (ANDARINE) 50 mg day... split doses... 25 mg in the a.m. and 25 mg 4-6 hours later
1-12 n2guard

Mini pct 13-16

Clomid 50/25/25/25 OR Nolva 40/20/20/20
Gw-501516 20 mg day
Click to expand...
That stacks based on them sites are over $1200 for a 12 week stack. That seems alot for SARM's when no one else I have seen on here push them. I mean I got the money but I also thought why not do the real stuff for that much cash and get better benefits out of it if my blood work comes back good. Im just trying to understand it I guess. Either way, I really appreciate the feedback. All information to me in good information.
 
MrPillowPantz said:
That stacks based on them sites are over $1200 for a 12 week stack. That seems alot for SARM's when no one else I have seen on here push them. I mean I got the money but I also thought why not do the real stuff for that much cash and get better benefits out of it if my blood work comes back good. Im just trying to understand it I guess. Either way, I really appreciate the feedback. All information to me in good information.
Click to expand...
You should always do what you are comfortable with... you being advised steroid use is absolutely insane and shows a lack of care and trying to get you just spend money.. you can run smaller sarms cutting cycles or just continue going natural with your work that you have already done a good job on.. i attempted to save you from certain short and long term problems.. I provide the strongest layouts to get the most results with minimal side effects...

also, myself, steve, rick and mobster have been doing this well over a decade now and have far more experience than most on here... not all , but most.. some people throw around random dangerous and bull shit advice that will likely only get you hurt...

on the prices...

you need

3 bottles each of gw, rad, s4 and sr and i would go with poly cell

3 of rad is 234

3 of s4 is 234

3 of sr is 234

3 of gw is 234

total is 936

you get 20% off orders over 200 dollars

so that makes it 800 for the order

so that makes it $265 a month to run a 4 compound sarms stack that is far safer, far more effective and will get you into far better condition at a much more rapid rate
 
dylangemelli said:
You should always do what you are comfortable with... you being advised steroid use is absolutely insane and shows a lack of care and trying to get you just spend money.. you can run smaller sarms cutting cycles or just continue going natural with your work that you have already done a good job on.. i attempted to save you from certain short and long term problems.. I provide the strongest layouts to get the most results with minimal side effects...

also, myself, steve, rick and mobster have been doing this well over a decade now and have far more experience than most on here... not all , but most.. some people throw around random dangerous and bull shit advice that will likely only get you hurt...

on the prices...

you need

3 bottles each of gw, rad, s4 and sr and i would go with poly cell

3 of rad is 234

3 of s4 is 234

3 of sr is 234

3 of gw is 234

total is 936

you get 20% off orders over 200 dollars

so that makes it 800 for the order

so that makes it $265 a month to run a 4 compound sarms stack that is far safer, far more effective and will get you into far better condition at a much more rapid rate
Click to expand...
Im about to do a full blood work panel tm. I should have it back in about 1 week. I can post it here? Do yall know how to decipher it?

My diet is on point. Im eating my maint cal right now at 3000 cal. Im eating about 240-250g protein every day. 6-8 eggs for omegas included. under 120 carbs. No sugars. Also. I do zero cardio. LOL. I feel like Im going to die after 5 minutes on the stair climber. I have a home gym with a air assault bike in there. I can start doing that every morning fasted.

I dont alot of greens but I supplement with greens powder. Ive been off gear for 2 months. I want to do it right. I will order this today then start a log as soon as I get them in.
 
MrPillowPantz said:
Im about to do a full blood work panel tm. I should have it back in about 1 week. I can post it here? Do yall know how to decipher it?

My diet is on point. Im eating my maint cal right now at 3000 cal. Im eating about 240-250g protein every day. 6-8 eggs for omegas included. under 120 carbs. No sugars. Also. I do zero cardio. LOL. I feel like Im going to die after 5 minutes on the stair climber. I have a home gym with a air assault bike in there. I can start doing that every morning fasted.

I dont alot of greens but I supplement with greens powder. Ive been off gear for 2 months. I want to do it right. I will order this today then start a log as soon as I get them in.
Click to expand...
you can post it here.. regardless of the bloodwork, that has no bearing given your body fat with steroid use bro.. i cannot stress that enough.. at a higher body fat where you are, you are FAR more susceptible to a wide array of side effects and anyone advising you to use them at your current body fat should be ashamed of themselves, not to mention the sever lack of cardio, which not only effects your overall health, but also would contribute to being in far better condition.. GW501516 and SR9009 are DIRECTLY aimed at improving cardio and metabolism, on top of gw benefiting cholesterol and blood pressure, which you are FAR more susceptible to having issues with at a higher body fat
 
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