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Veteran Thread Future cycle question

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rizzlekdizzle

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Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
 
Yes that’s the other option - npp.
My previous T and Deca cycle was 500T and 400deca with proviron throughout and var at the end.
I was thinking keep test around the same and the go divvy up deca and primo - or perhaps just do the same cycle again as it did work well. Obviously could replace deca with npp also. What would you guys suggest dose wise? If using primo split deca and primo 200 each?
Just putting out feelers to see what kind of stack I could design
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
Your size is great 👍 already
I like your lean bulk idea, you thought about EQ for it?
 
Your size is great 👍 already
I like your lean bulk idea, you thought about EQ for it?
Currently at tail end of EQ cycle and lean bulk I think suits my long limbed and tall body type- I’m not built like a brick
 
Primo at 200mg would really just be controlling e2 but it would work nicely.
Eq is the other option, I am currently running test, npp, eq for a lean bulk with great results.

You would find primo much the same as eq just milder.
I see what you mean - might not be utilising primo to its best if at that lower dose? And would I be then missing out on the gains from the deca/bop by going lower on them to accomodate the primo…I do have plenty of EQ still - and EQ is certainly nice - getting nice and vascular and it pins so well too
 
I see what you mean - might not be utilising primo to its best if at that lower dose? And would I be then missing out on the gains from the deca/bop by going lower on them to accomodate the primo…I do have plenty of EQ still - and EQ is certainly nice - getting nice and vascular and it pins so well too
I have some primo too, to run it and really get the most out of it from a anabolic perspective youd want like 600mg a week, so I intend to use it on cruise cycles to nicely control e2 and add a bit of polish at low doses like 125mg.
I think youd get a whole lot more out of the cycle with EQ, especially if you have ran it before and it worked well for you.

But lowering deca to add primo, definitely not going to be like for like gains.
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
This is purely my 2c, there’s always ten ways to skin a cat, but this is how I’d approach it within the scope of my knowledge 🙏

When you go back to cruising on TRT, use that phase to clean everything up. Dial in your bloodwork, get properly lean, and focus hard on maximising insulin sensitivity.

Monitor fasted blood glucose throughout the TRT phase and aim to keep it consistently in the 4.0–4.9 mmol range. Confirm this with bloodwork by checking HbA1c so you know where your true average is sitting.

Being as insulin sensitive as possible before you start pushing is critical. If insulin resistance is already elevated at the start, you’ll spend the whole push chasing your tail, forcing food, spilling over, then needing frequent mini-cuts just to regain sensitivity.
At the end of the day, insulin sensitivity largely determines whether the food you eat ends up as muscle or fat.

Once you’ve leaned out as much as you reasonably can in this phase, bloodwork is spot on, and insulin sensitivity is maximised naturally (no metformin or other drugs), you’ve created the longest, most productive runway for growth.

That’s your green light to push.
(Are you using GH?)

Test is your foundation. Push an initial increase as your first move. I don’t know your TRT dose, but as an example, adding 200 mg is a reasonable starting point.
Slowly increase calories and observe the growth rate. Don’t rush big jumps, overfeeding too early will blunt insulin sensitivity and cause unnecessary spillover.
Too much food before the body can utilise it is like smothering a campfire with wood before it’s hot enough to burn.

When growth slows, audit everything before touching doses:
Sleep adequate?
Stress under control?
Nutrition consistent?

Training volume and effort appropriate?
If not, fix those first.

If those are solid, ask the next questions:
Are you actually in a surplus and just gaining fat? If so, adjust.

Are you not in a surplus? Fix that first.

Is training performance still improving? If yes, there’s no need to increase anything yet.

Only if performance is stagnant and all health markers are still good would I consider increasing PEDs.

Primo is scarce right now, so I’d mainly use it as an E2-management tool, taking whatever additional anabolic benefit comes at the dose required to keep estrogen in a constructive range as test increases.

When progress slows again and your weekly test dose reaches a solid level your bloodwork and health comfortably allows with optimal e2 levels, NPP would be my next addition.

From there, repeat the same process.

Adjust slowly, monitor everything, and let bloodwork and health metrics be the jury on how high the total anabolic load is allowed to go.

Toward the end, if lifts begin to stall, you could add Anavar in short pulses e.g pre-workout, to help drive performance. That said, if all boxes are ticked along the way, you may not even need it.

The goal is to grow for as long as possible while staying healthy, which ultimately leads to better long-term muscle retention.

You don’t want to sprint toward quick growth and short-term gains at the expense of your health.


As mentions simply my 2c
 
This is purely my 2c, there’s always ten ways to skin a cat, but this is how I’d approach it within the scope of my knowledge 🙏

When you go back to cruising on TRT, use that phase to clean everything up. Dial in your bloodwork, get properly lean, and focus hard on maximising insulin sensitivity.

Monitor fasted blood glucose throughout the TRT phase and aim to keep it consistently in the 4.0–4.9 mmol range. Confirm this with bloodwork by checking HbA1c so you know where your true average is sitting.

Being as insulin sensitive as possible before you start pushing is critical. If insulin resistance is already elevated at the start, you’ll spend the whole push chasing your tail, forcing food, spilling over, then needing frequent mini-cuts just to regain sensitivity.
At the end of the day, insulin sensitivity largely determines whether the food you eat ends up as muscle or fat.

Once you’ve leaned out as much as you reasonably can in this phase, bloodwork is spot on, and insulin sensitivity is maximised naturally (no metformin or other drugs), you’ve created the longest, most productive runway for growth.

That’s your green light to push.
(Are you using GH?)

Test is your foundation. Push an initial increase as your first move. I don’t know your TRT dose, but as an example, adding 200 mg is a reasonable starting point.
Slowly increase calories and observe the growth rate. Don’t rush big jumps, overfeeding too early will blunt insulin sensitivity and cause unnecessary spillover.
Too much food before the body can utilise it is like smothering a campfire with wood before it’s hot enough to burn.

When growth slows, audit everything before touching doses:
Sleep adequate?
Stress under control?
Nutrition consistent?

Training volume and effort appropriate?
If not, fix those first.

If those are solid, ask the next questions:
Are you actually in a surplus and just gaining fat? If so, adjust.

Are you not in a surplus? Fix that first.

Is training performance still improving? If yes, there’s no need to increase anything yet.

Only if performance is stagnant and all health markers are still good would I consider increasing PEDs.

Primo is scarce right now, so I’d mainly use it as an E2-management tool, taking whatever additional anabolic benefit comes at the dose required to keep estrogen in a constructive range as test increases.

When progress slows again and your weekly test dose reaches a solid level your bloodwork and health comfortably allows with optimal e2 levels, NPP would be my next addition.

From there, repeat the same process.

Adjust slowly, monitor everything, and let bloodwork and health metrics be the jury on how high the total anabolic load is allowed to go.

Toward the end, if lifts begin to stall, you could add Anavar in short pulses e.g pre-workout, to help drive performance. That said, if all boxes are ticked along the way, you may not even need it.

The goal is to grow for as long as possible while staying healthy, which ultimately leads to better long-term muscle retention.

You don’t want to sprint toward quick growth and short-term gains at the expense of your health.


As mentions simply my 2c
What a reply brother 😍
Thats not 2c closer to $1000
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
Damn I can’t add anything to what @Allupfromhere said that was one hell of a reply for you right there.

My two cents is that you said “lean bulk” and gave us some rough numbers/totals and knowing your last cycle pretty well from your log (excellent log by the way!) including your results I’d say 500mg Test with 200/200 Deca/Primo. This is all considering you know how you respond at 900mg total load and want to run Primo and the lower dose of Deca will keep it less wet for a lean bulk with e2 ideally being kept in check with primo (it won’t as much as the EQ did however).

If you wanna try ED micro dosing (I’m currently loving it) then you can try NPP for the first time too equating to 500/200/200 T/NPP/Primo. Otherwise stick with Deca and long estered test with the primo.

Good luck with the surgery brother you can run a surgery recovery log too if you so desire LOL.

And yes 100% to the Reta.
If your wallet won’t hate you then at your level you’ll like GH as well but you’ll need to run it 6-12 months.
 
This is purely my 2c, there’s always ten ways to skin a cat, but this is how I’d approach it within the scope of my knowledge 🙏

When you go back to cruising on TRT, use that phase to clean everything up. Dial in your bloodwork, get properly lean, and focus hard on maximising insulin sensitivity.

Monitor fasted blood glucose throughout the TRT phase and aim to keep it consistently in the 4.0–4.9 mmol range. Confirm this with bloodwork by checking HbA1c so you know where your true average is sitting.

Being as insulin sensitive as possible before you start pushing is critical. If insulin resistance is already elevated at the start, you’ll spend the whole push chasing your tail, forcing food, spilling over, then needing frequent mini-cuts just to regain sensitivity.
At the end of the day, insulin sensitivity largely determines whether the food you eat ends up as muscle or fat.

Once you’ve leaned out as much as you reasonably can in this phase, bloodwork is spot on, and insulin sensitivity is maximised naturally (no metformin or other drugs), you’ve created the longest, most productive runway for growth.

That’s your green light to push.
(Are you using GH?)

Test is your foundation. Push an initial increase as your first move. I don’t know your TRT dose, but as an example, adding 200 mg is a reasonable starting point.
Slowly increase calories and observe the growth rate. Don’t rush big jumps, overfeeding too early will blunt insulin sensitivity and cause unnecessary spillover.
Too much food before the body can utilise it is like smothering a campfire with wood before it’s hot enough to burn.

When growth slows, audit everything before touching doses:
Sleep adequate?
Stress under control?
Nutrition consistent?

Training volume and effort appropriate?
If not, fix those first.

If those are solid, ask the next questions:
Are you actually in a surplus and just gaining fat? If so, adjust.

Are you not in a surplus? Fix that first.

Is training performance still improving? If yes, there’s no need to increase anything yet.

Only if performance is stagnant and all health markers are still good would I consider increasing PEDs.

Primo is scarce right now, so I’d mainly use it as an E2-management tool, taking whatever additional anabolic benefit comes at the dose required to keep estrogen in a constructive range as test increases.

When progress slows again and your weekly test dose reaches a solid level your bloodwork and health comfortably allows with optimal e2 levels, NPP would be my next addition.

From there, repeat the same process.

Adjust slowly, monitor everything, and let bloodwork and health metrics be the jury on how high the total anabolic load is allowed to go.

Toward the end, if lifts begin to stall, you could add Anavar in short pulses e.g pre-workout, to help drive performance. That said, if all boxes are ticked along the way, you may not even need it.

The goal is to grow for as long as possible while staying healthy, which ultimately leads to better long-term muscle retention.

You don’t want to sprint toward quick growth and short-term gains at the expense of your health.


As mentions simply my 2c
Far out that some detail brother thank you!
 
Far out that some detail brother thank you!
Fogot to add brother, 100% i would keep reta in there too as high of a dose as you can that still allows you to eat all your food. That glucagon agonist will significantly help with keeping insulin sensitive while carbs get pushed up.
 
Fogot to add brother, 100% i would keep reta in there too as high of a dose as you can that still allows you to eat all your food. That glucagon agonist will significantly help with keeping insulin sensitive while carbs get pushed up.
Reta, Mots, Slu - literal magic, im eating enough to feed a family and have put barely any fat on. Absolute game changers
 
Reta, Mots, Slu - literal magic, im eating enough to feed a family and have put barely any fat on. Absolute game changers
Bruhhh dont get me started on the mito stuff too lol. I didnt want to make it seem like i was throwing polypharmacy armt him.

But @rizzleif younwant me to dive into this rabbit hole for you im more then happy!!
This part is right up my alley
 
Bruhhh dont get me started on the mito stuff too lol. I didnt want to make it seem like i was throwing polypharmacy armt him.

But @rizzleif younwant me to dive into this rabbit hole for you im more then happy!!
This part is right up my alley
Ha! You know your stuff bro!
Would you recommend Reta during the cruise/trt phase as well?
 
I don’t have as much experience as most of the guys here but I have enjoyed the pleasure of cycling the primo and NPP on different occasions.

Test and primo 1:1 didn’t work for me. Lowered my E2 to much.

Test @ 350 and NPP at 210 wasn’t enough. Bumped the NPP up to 240 and enjoyed nice gains.

All that said, I would go:
400 test
300 primo
250-300 NPP
25mg Proviron ED
Reta at 2 units/week to start out.

Now that is just my 2c lol. Good luck. I’m watching to see what you decide. Thinking of doing the same this Fall. Might have to roll with EQ though if Primo is still not available.
 
Ha! You know your stuff bro!
Would you recommend Reta during the cruise/trt phase as well?

Honestly brother, I recommended running reta in any shifting phase, whether pushing or cutting, because it helps keep nutrient partitioning where it should be instead of letting the body get stagnant.

In this particular case, your cruise has a very clear purpose. Clean up bloodwork where needed, strip back as much excess fat as possible, and restore insulin sensitivity.

That’s how you set a proper runway for future growth rather than just forcing progress.

Would I personally run it year round based on the current data? On paper, yes. But it would be irresponsible to recommend that universally when the compound simply hasn’t been around long enough for us to fully understand long term implications.
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
I followed each one of your logs as you know :D @rizzlekdizzle lean bulk is right.
Deca and primo you can do it but I rather see you use npp. Testosterone 500mgs/week, npp 200mgs/week, equipoise 100mgs/week with tbol or dbol preworkout 10mgs sublingual.
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
How long in total will the break be?
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
@rizzlekdizzle a lean bulk would work pretty good. I like that you were able to put on muscle and lose body fat in your last deca cycle. That's not easy to do.
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
you can run Primo with Deca; sure it will do a good job of balancing things off but I think Proviron would be a better investment.
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
I honestly think primo is a waste of time with deca. I would pick something like tbol or proviron with it. You don't want to run primo for this purpose. I would save the primo for its own cycle if that makes sense.
 
Absolutely you can. I’d run it lower dose though
 
Hi all
With my current cycle ending this month (then a forced 2-4 week gym break due to som upcoming surgery - sinus and nasal hopefully only 2 weeks off) I’m obviously thinking about my next cycle after a TRT break.

I think a lean bulk would suit me - my last deca cycle I put on muscle and lost BF. Do people run deca with primo as welI on top of a Test base? I have 3 vials of primo waiting for me that I ordered a while back so am wondering if it would be a good opportunity to use it, and perhaps some
Low dose Reta to go along with it.

Any input appreciated brothers
Bros, what's going on with your sinus and nasal? Are you getting lots of allergies?
 
Bros, what's going on with your sinus and nasal? Are you getting lots of allergies?
Regular sinus infections, breathing and airway issues with some sleep apnoea etc. quite a few old nasal injuries from sports and martial arts days too.
 
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Regular sinus infections, breathing and airway issues with some sleep apnoea etc. quite a few old nasal injuries from sports and martial arts days too.
You getting your turbinates done? I got them shaved down, the best surgery. Can finally breathe through my nose and was an easy recovery for me.

Cycle wise.

I would push test as high as you tolerate without AI, then add ~200mg of primo and similar of nanadrolone. Either deca or npp (i prefer the npp because of the shorter ester and easier adjustments)

I've found 200npp to be quite powerful in my experience
 
You getting your turbinates done? I got them shaved down, the best surgery. Can finally breathe through my nose and was an easy recovery for me.

Cycle wise.

I would push test as high as you tolerate without AI, then add ~200mg of primo and similar of nanadrolone. Either deca or npp (i prefer the npp because of the shorter ester and easier adjustments)

I've found 200npp to be quite powerful in my experience
yeah turbinates and a functional rhinoplasty on top of that - then there will probably be another soft palate surgery down the track - not looking forward to that one!
 
Regular sinus infections, breathing and airway issues with some sleep apnoea etc. quite a few old nasal injuries from sports and martial arts days too.
Bros, maybe you got something you're allergic to maybe in the house or maybe outside. Who knows?
 
If someone was to run 5-600 primo , what would be the solution ? More test ?
It very individual. But my personal when I did 600mg primo. Was running 1000mg test
 
I’ve definitely decided to run my TRT cruise at 150mg week along with 1mg Reta to lean out a bit before hitting the next cycle. Time wise - probably a couple of months.
Am leaning towards the test+npp+low dose eq
 
I’ve definitely decided to run my TRT cruise at 150mg week along with 1mg Reta to lean out a bit before hitting the next cycle. Time wise - probably a couple of months.
Am leaning towards the test+npp+low dose eq
I think your best course here is test npp and low dose eq it's a bulk right, light tbol wouldn't hurt either @rizzlekdizzle with hgh I hope
 
I think your best course here is test npp and low dose eq it's a bulk right, light tbol wouldn't hurt either @rizzlekdizzle with hgh I hope
HGH - I'm not a huge fan of pinning and twice a day everyday pin doesn't appeal that much to me ....
 
@R.AP Any comment here? I value your opinion but I also know you aren’t a fan of nandrolones.
Yeah there aren't many times that I would program them. Though a sprinkle of NPP can make sense if it's well tolerated. I might program 100mg/ week alongside a well designed cycle to help with additional anabolic load if it's well tolerated, it does have a higher binding afinity for AR after all. Often its not necassary, and its risk profile vs. reward doesn't always make sense.

As for Primo, this one is easy to answer. Find your maximum tolerable test dose, and then taper your Primo, montoring your bloodwork, until you find the desired e2 level.

The rate at which it will affect someones e2 will vary person to person
 
Primo at 200mg would really just be controlling e2 but it would work nicely.
Eq is the other option, I am currently running test, npp, eq for a lean bulk with great results.

You would find primo much the same as eq just milder.
Yeah I am curious about EQ and NPP as well. I've only used Test/Prim and Test/Mast and liked them both but gonna try Test/EQ this time around. May potentially look at adding in npp/mast down the track or just upping test/eq
 
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